Lawn Renovations | Glyphosate Lawn Burn Downs? | Starting a Lawn Over



all right now we're gonna go all the way out west to Sandy Utah let's hear about Cameron and some clumping tall fescue hey Alan hey it's Cameron Wilson I'm from Sandy Utah so I've kind of got a quick question for you so I kind of talked with Connor Ward I was at Bear Lake Utah last weekend and he told me that if I plan to kill off my lawn that's we tend to do it would be have the seat down August 10th and so I've really been thinking about that but I also heard you say you know know if killing off the whole lawns going to be the best option so I kind of want to hear your opinion so the reason for wanting to kill it off as I've got a lot of clumping fescue I bought this house about two years ago and it was never taken care of I actually had a neighbor tell me that their house hasn't looked this good in about 30 years she's lived at 37 so it's it's been neglected for a lot of years and those fescue clumps has really expanded and there's just big clumps in the middle of my it's a mix of Ryan Kentucky bluegrass so my first option would be just try to scar it up and detach and do a split feed do that about August 10th my next option would be till it off completely and then start over with seeding and the last option would be my latte super unlevel so I'm going to need to do a lot of leveling what do you think about getting a sod cutter removing all the sod REE leveling the lawn completely and then going with new seeds from there I really want to know what the best option would be I'm really just kind of throwing mud at the wall and seeing what sticks oh your channel has helped a lot I've gone from just their own stuff down to calculating and my mom's actually looking really good this year and so that's what makes me want to try to push it to look even better so thanks again for everything you do and I hope to hear back so Cameron I don't know maybe you maybe Utah has an accent because when I first let's listen to this call it sounds a lot like Conor so I guess Utah has an accidents I can pick it up maybe some of you can tell me if I'm the only one and that's not a cut on you guys I you guys know I like accents I like to pick up on regional accents I think it's kind of interesting it's one of the things that I think makes country great but anyway with that this is a good strategy to think through and Cameron thank you very much for this call and you have obviously thought this out ahead of time so you know let's go through some of that as well so your first option and by the way stop him by and cien cien Connor yeah he definitely is all about that burndown strategy he feels like one little 2×2 patch of poet anawa in his law and he's gonna burn the whole place down but you know and that's fine I I don't want to be the anti burned down your lawn guy even though I'm kind of talking that way recently but I just want us to always think before we do that I want us to think through the strategy which exactly what Cameron's doing throwing that mud up against the wall and seeing what sticks so Cameron here's what's gonna stick with me I'm gonna give you a completely different aqua no not a completely different option I'm gonna give you something you hadn't thought about and I'm gonna tell you why and then just like it's been happening I want you to call back in once you decide what you're gonna do and let me know so I'm gonna narrow this one down pretty quick and the one thing that I keyed on that you said Cameron is that you have to level your lawn that you've got major areas that are unlevel now I want to just say one thing here lawns don't need to be level lawns actually need to be flat and they don't actually need to be flat they actually need to be consistently sloped and when I say that they need to be consistently sloped away from your house if your lawn was actually dead set level you could possibly have water get back into your house when it rains so what you want is you want the grass to the lawn or the turf or really the grade you want the grade to slope consistently away from your house and so I want you to think more flat not level now you probably don't want it exactly flat either it will be a consistently it'll be a consistent slope that leads away from your house and when I say that you need to be able to mow it without scalping anything now if you're gonna mow with a real mower at 5 a cinch you can't have as steep of a consistent slope or hilly as you could if you're mowing with a rotary mower at 4 inches in other words the rotary mower at 4 inches has a lot more forgiveness in how flat the lawn is as opposed to when your real mowing so that's the thing you want to think about now because you went in sake Connor out there I'm assuming you're probably going to start real mow which is cool you just need to think about that when it comes to it you definitely don't want level you want as flat as you can but definitely keep that thing grated away from your house however that changes the strategy completely because if you have existing turf there and you have major bumps ruts low spots whatever you want to call it if you need to do that then you're gonna have to start over you're gonna have to burn down and start over you you can't do a major leveling and correct fescue clump problem especially if it's a neglected one like this where it's really bad you can't fix both of those with some existing stuff there you got to get rid of all of it so the answer is this to scrape everything off and I don't even recommend that you use a sod cutter I recommend to use a bobcat I recommend you come in with a bobcat scrape everything off get a box blade and regrade put a fresh finish grade on that lawn this is your opportunity to go ahead and start over and do it right from the very beginning so go ahead in and by the way when you do this you don't need to use any glyphosate here you can just come in with the Bobcat scrape it off get the box blade get a nice fresh finished grade on there hand rake out the rest and then you're good to go now before I tell you what to do from there I want to talk about why I don't recommend this burning down all the time with glyphosate the reason I don't recommend burning down the lawn is because when you kill all the green and living things in the lawn you upset the balance in the soil because believe it or not the roots in the soil whether it's weeds or whether it's turf grass have a synergistic or a symbiotic relationship with organisms in the soil and when you kill those roots you're taking away a very important vital part of the soil the other thing that you're doing then is you're killing those organisms not just with the glyphosate itself which I mean I don't necessarily know how many microbes or fungi or earthworms are killed with glyphosate I don't know that and that's not what I'm saying but I do know that when there's no more plant material there and the Sun is baking down on that soil straight that's going to kill soil organisms it's going to heat them up too much the one thing that plants in a lawn do whether it's grass or weeds as they shade it they keep things cool they also retain moisture and so all the moisture will get sucked out and that's gonna kill organisms in the soil so burning down a lawn does that it harms the balance that's in the soil now maybe you don't like the balance that's there maybe that's why you do have certain weeds that's why certain things have taken over you don't like the balance that's there well you can change the balance but you definitely it's hard to bring things back to life does that make sense so that's what burning down does is it destroys the soil and that means that not only do you have to grow new grass there you also have to hope that the microbe populations come back which they will I want you to think they won't snot doom and gloom but it's just another thing that has to happen now the other thing that can happen then when you open the soil up like that when you kill all the green stuff off and you allow the soil to dry out also what happens is if you get arraigned it may allow the rain to get deeper the water to move deeper it will it will do it will change the oxygen content as well all these things can awaken things that should better be left deep and alone and in the dark and not awakened it can awaken more seeds not only more clumping tall fescue seeds that have probably laid dormant and will continue to lay dormant when you open that lawn up a lot of those will come up but who knows what else is under there if this has been a neglected lawn for many many years 30 years according to what you're getting with your anecdotal evidence from your neighbor who knows what's under there that is laying dormant that has kind of found this position where it's not gonna get the right temperatures it's not gonna get the right moisture you know that's the whole thing just because we talked about how to grow grass seed and the things you need with grass seed well every seed needs a certain condition to grow and sometimes seeds of of things that we don't want our weed seeds or whatever they can get deep down in the soil where they're just not gonna grow but when you open things up and more oxygen gets down more it awakened those things up and you can actually cause yourself more problems so that's why I don't like the idea of burned down but back to you Cameron like I said earlier you're gonna have to burn down and actually not burn down you're gonna have to start over so you're gonna have to scrape everything up and regrade and that also can awaken things from the deep so I just wanted to go through that real quick and say that for those of you considering burning down your lawn that don't have to do a complete regrade like Cameron does please reconsider the burning down of the law but going back to Cameron's question he's gonna have to start over I recommend that you use that box blade like I said you get that new grade on there now because you will be wakening things up though in that case physically because you're gonna be doing a lot of physical activity up there I recommend that you don't do seating and that you sod now the reason that I'm gonna recommend sod is because sod has the ability to block out the Sun so you got to go in and regrade and stir all this stuff up and redo it but the one thing that all of that stuff needs in order to regrow or those seeds that you may have waking up to grow is they need sunlight and if you put down sod immediately you're blotting the Sun out whereas when you burn the lawn down with glyphosate and then you put seed in there and you water a lot thus the lawn is still wide open everything is still wide open for a long time and the Sun can still penetrate way down deep and those uglies can come up but if you saw it on top you're blotting out the Sun and that is one of the big reasons you sod you're also gonna have a nice dense turf mat right there which can immediately help compete with anything that does happen to try and germinate the third reason I like sod here is that sod does come with some soil already as a part of it it's not a lot but there's some soil there and that soil contains good microbes from the farm that you bought it from and most sod guys that I've talked to most growers are real style soul scientists you want to talk about somebody that knows up how to use humic acid and microbes and bugs in a jug most of them have their own kind of super-secret sauce mix that they use in their fields to make sure they get optimum growth because by the way if there's anybody that knows how to grow turf of whatever kind it is its sod growers so when you buy that sod from that sod farm you're getting some of that goodness some of that secret sauce that they have included to make that sod so healthy and that's going to go into your lawn and that's going to help any microbes that are there to continue to expand and grow because again you did not have the lawn opened up for the long time and this is the last piece of it when you do this this strategy with the bobcat the lawn is actually not opened up for very long maybe a day because you're coming in scraping regrading and sodding so you don't have a lot of time for all of these things that I talked about previously to kind of come to fruition boy I gotta say a shout outs have been the lawn guardian he breaks up these podcasts for me this segment is gonna be impossible for him to break up into into small segments so either way he'll figure it out but that's what I recommend for you Cameron is you spend that extra money now a lot of people will ask Allen sod isn't that expensive yes sod can be expensive you know in a way shape or fashion so let's talk through it let's let's just think through the cost of sod here real quick now sod is gonna I don't know what the price is across the country varied by grass types varied where you live how far you are away from sod farms I mean I have sod farms within a 10-minute drive of me so and this is warm season turf down here I think probably I think the number one crop in Florida is actually sod I think it used to be citrus but I think it's sod now we have a lot of cattle here – that's not a crop but definitely sod I think is definitely in the top two or three crops grown in Florida so because of that sod prices here might be cheaper than up north but for me I can get high quality st. Augustine grass for three hundred and fifty dollars per pallet delivered and each pallet will cover four hundred square feet so let's do a little bit of math there if you have a five thousand square foot lawn Cameron then that means that you would need twelve and a half pallets to cover that however you want to order you know 25 to 30% more for cuts and mistakes assuming you don't have a perfect square or rectangle out there so let's say you need to order 15 pallets of sod at $350 each delivered that's gonna cost you five thousand two hundred fifty dollars now is that expensive yes five thousand dollars is a big nut however let's weigh it out is five thousand dollars to do it right right now to have instant lawn that blots out the Sun and only leaves your lawn open for a matter of hours rather than weeks on end like burning down with glyphosate and seeding is it worth it to stop the future problems that you could have because of the burn down and seed and the lawn being opened all these these weeks is it worth it to pay more now to suffer less later that is what you want to kind of weigh out there now is it a guarantee that if you sod you're not going to get weeds you're not gonna have clumping tall fescue come back no it's not a guarantee but I can tell you that for sure blotting out the Sun and not keeping the lawn open for that long amount of time is going to reduce the amount that does come back and what does hopefully you can stay on top of it and you can hand pull it much much sooner because you're not going to let it go neglect it for 30 years

8 Replies to “Lawn Renovations | Glyphosate Lawn Burn Downs? | Starting a Lawn Over

  1. Thanks Allyn for putting up the Chemlawn “old school” die-cast tanker on the shelf behind you! I had a couple and couldn’t think of anyone better than you to share so I sent one to you for your enjoyment! I drove truck #157 for a couple years back in the ‘70,s (Glenview Branch, Rosemont Branch and Hinsdale Branch IL then transferred to the Largo, FL branch and then helped open the Sarasota, FL branch) Keep educating the DYI’ers! Thank you for the advice with my new Bermuda lawn! You got me into striping my yard too!

  2. You should do a side by side of chemical burn down vs torch burn down. I live in the NW and have done a literal “burn down” with my propane torch last yr. I wanted an organic way to safely remove a ton of poa annua. It actually killed the current seeds and helped it green up on overseed. My neighbors thought i was crazy , but a much safer and immediate way to fix it instead of roundup :). I still needed a dose of tenacity this yr but it wasnt near as bad! Thanks!

  3. If you are very committed to your lawn, and you want it to be the best, that 30 year old grass will never meet your expectations. You will need to start all over- sod/seed with newer cultivars to get that lawn you are looking for.

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