Why you should treat the tech you use at work like a colleague | Nadjia Yousif


So, imagine a company hires
a new employee, best in the business, who’s on a multimillion-dollar contract. Now imagine that whenever this employee
went to go meet with her team members, the appointments
were ignored or dismissed, and in the meetings that did happen, she was yelled at or kicked out
after a few minutes. So after a while, she just
went quietly back to her desk, sat there with none of her skills
being put to use, of course, being ignored by most people, and of course, still getting paid
millions of dollars. This hotshot employee
who can’t seem to catch a break is that company’s technology. This scenario is not an exaggeration. In my job as a technology advisor, I’ve seen so many companies
make the well-meaning decisions to put huge investments into technology, only to have the benefits
fail to live up to the expectation. In fact, in one study I read, 25 percent of technology projects are canceled or deliver things
that are never used. That’s like billions of dollars
just being wasted each year. So why is this? Well, from what I’ve seen, the expectation from the top management
is high but not unreasonable about the benefits from the technology. They expect people will use them, it will create time savings, and people will become
genuinely better at their jobs. But the reality is that
the people on the front line, who are supposed to be using
these softwares and tools, they’re skeptical or even afraid. We postpone the online trainings, we don’t bother to learn the shortcuts, and we get frustrated
at the number of tools we have to remember
how to log into and use. Right? And that frustration,
that guilt — it’s racking up, the more that technology is inserting
itself into our daily working lives, which is a lot. Brookings says that 70 percent
of jobs today in the US require at least mid-level digital skills. So basically, to work these days, you need to be able
to work with technology. But from what I’ve seen, we are not approaching this
with the right mindset. So here’s the idea
that I’ve been toying with: What if we treated technology
like a team member? I’ve been writing my own
personal experiment about this. I’ve spoken to people
from all different industries about how they can treat
their core technologies like colleagues. I’ve met with people
from the restaurant industry, medical professionals, teachers, bankers, people from many other sectors, and the first step with anybody
that I would meet with was to draw out
the structure of their teams in an organization chart. Now, I’m a total geek
when it comes to organization charts. Org charts are really cool
because, if they are drawn well, you can quickly get a sense
of what individual roles are and also how a team works well together. But if you look at a typical org chart, it only includes the boxes and lines
that represent people. None of the technology
team members are there. They’re all invisible. So for each of the organizations
that I met with for my experiment, I had to draw a new type of org chart, one that also included the technology. And when I did this, people I spoke to could actually visualize
their technologies as coworkers, and they could ask things like: “Is this software reporting
to the right person?” “Does this man and machine team
work well together?” “Is that technology
actually the team member that everybody’s awkwardly avoiding?” So I will walk you through an example
of a small catering company to bring this experiment to life. This is the top layer of people
who work at Bovingdons Catering Company. There’s a sales director, who manages
all of the customer interactions, and there’s an operations director,
who manages all the internal activities. And here’s the people who report
to the sales and operations directors. And finally, here’s the view where we’ve overlaid
the software and the hardware that’s used by the Bovingdons staff. Using this amazing org chart,
we can now explore how the human team members
and the technology team members are interacting. So the first thing
that I’m going to look for is where there’s a human
and machine relationship that’s extra critical. Usually, it’s somebody using a technology on a day-to-day basis
to do his or her job. At Bovingdons, the finance director with
the accounting platform would be one. Next, I would check on the status
of their collaboration. Are they working well together? Getting along? In this case, it turned out to be
a tenuous relationship. So, what to do? Well, if the accounting platform
were actually a person, the finance director would feel
responsible for managing it and taking care of it. Well, in the same way, my first suggestion was to think
about a team-building activity, maybe getting together
on a specialist course. My second suggestion was to think about
scheduling regular performance reviews for the accounting platform, where the finance director
would literally give feedback to the company who sold it. Now, there will be several of these
really important human and machine teams in every organization. So if you’re in one,
it’s worth taking the time to think about ways to make
those relationships truly collaborative. Next, I’ll look on the chart
for any human role which might be overloaded by technology, let’s say, interacting with four
or more types of applications. At Bovingdons, the operations director
was interacting with five technologies. Now, he told me that he’d always felt
overwhelmed by his job, but it wasn’t until our conversation that he thought it might be because
of the technologies he was overseeing. And we were talking that, if the operations director had actually
had a lot of people reporting to him, he probably would have done
something about it, because it was stretching him too thin, like, move some of them
to report to somebody else. So in the same way, we talked about
moving some of the technologies to report to someone else, like the food inventory to go to the chef. The last thing that I’ll look for
is any technology that seems to be on the org chart
without a real home. Sometimes they’re floating around
without an owner. Sometimes they’re reporting
to so many different areas that you can’t tell
who’s actually using it. Now, at Bovingdons, nobody appeared to be looking after
the marketing software. It was like someone had hired it
and then didn’t give it a desk or any instructions on what to do. So clearly, it needed a job description, maybe someone to manage it. But in other companies, you might find that a technology
has been sidelined for a reason, like it’s time for it
to leave or be retired. Now, retiring applications
is something that all companies do. But maybe taking the mindset that those
applications are actually coworkers could help them to decide when and how
to retire those applications in the way that would be least destructive
to the rest of the team. I did this experiment
with 15 different professionals, and each time it sparked an idea. Sometimes, a bit more. You remember that hotshot employee
I was telling you about, that everybody was ignoring? That was a real story
told to me by Christopher, a very energetic human resources manager
at a big consumer goods company. Technology was a new HR platform, and it had been installed
for 14 months at great expense, but nobody was using it. So we were talking about how, if this had really been such a hotshot
employee with amazing credentials, you would go out of your way
to get to know it, maybe invite them for coffee, get to know their background. So in the spirit of experimentation, Christopher set up one-hour appointments, coffee optional, for his team members to have no agenda
but to get to know their HR system. Some people, they clicked around
menu item by menu item. Other people, they searched online
for things that they weren’t clear about. A couple of them got together,
gossiped about the new software in town. And a few weeks later,
Christopher called to tell me that people were using
the system in new ways, and he thought it was going to save them
weeks of effort in the future. And they also reported feeling
less intimidated by the software. I found that pretty amazing, that taking this mindset
helped Christopher’s team and others that I spoke to
these past few months actually feel happier
about working with technology. And I later found out
this is backed up by research. Studies have shown that people
who work in organizations that encourage them to talk about
and learn about the technologies in the workplace have 20 percent lower stress levels than those in organizations that don’t. I also found it really cool
that when I started to do this experiment, I started with what was happening
between a person and an individual technology, but then it ultimately led to ideas
about how to manage tech across entire companies. Like, when I did this
for my own job and extended it, I thought about how
our data analysis tools should go on the equivalent
of a job rotation program, where different parts of the company
could get to know it. And I also thought about suggesting
to our recruiting team that some of the technologies
we work with every day should come with us
on our big recruiting events. If you were a university student, how cool would it be to not
only get to know the people you might be working with, but also the technologies? Now, all of this begs the question: What have we been missing by keeping the technologies
that we work with day to day invisible, and what, beyond those
billions of dollars in value, might we be leaving on the table? The good news is, you don’t need to be
an org chart geek like me to take this experiment forward. It will take a matter
of minutes for most people to draw out a structure
of who they work with, a little bit longer
to add in the technologies to get a view of the entire team, and then you can have fun
asking questions like, “Which are the technologies
that I’ll be taking out for coffee?” Now, I didn’t do this experiment for kicks or for the coffee. I did it because the critical skill
in the 21st-century workplace is going to be to collaborate
with the technologies that are becoming such a big and costly
part of our daily working lives. And from what I was seeing,
we are struggling to cope with that. So it might sound counterintuitive, but by embracing the idea that these
machines are actually valuable colleagues, we as people will perform better and be happier. So let’s all share a bit of humanity towards the technologies
and the softwares and the algorithms and the robots who we work with, because we will all be the better for it. Thank you. (Applause)

7 Ways to Manage NEGATIVE People at Work – #7Ways


(dramatic sibilant music) – Hello Believe Nation. My name is Evan Carmichael. My one word is believe and
I believe that entrepreneurs are going to solve all the
major problems of the world. So to help you on your path, in today’s video we’re going
to talk about seven ways to manage negative people at work. And, as always guys, as
you’re listening if you hear something that really resonates with you, please leave it down
in the Comments below. Put quotes around it so other people can be inspired as well. And when you write it down,
it’s much more likely to stick with yourself too. Enjoy. – [Robot] Nine, eight. (hiphop music) – So one of the most
difficult things about being in a work environment is
being around negative people. I think even just in home and in general, being around negative
people sucks and being able to navigate around and with
those people can sometimes be important on your journey. And so today I’m going to share with you seven different ways to do it
that I hope will inspire you and help you on your path. (short percussion music) My number one way to manage
negative people is don’t. Don’t be around negative people. Eliminate them from your life. This is what I try to do as
much as possible in my own life. This may not be the answer
that you’re looking for and there’s more that are
coming but it’s my best answer because if you are surrounded
by negative people constantly you’re going to get more negative,
you’re going to be unhappy, you’re not going to reach your potential. And so if I was in a work
environment and this person was really negative and
being around me all the time, I might try to transfer, I might look for other opportunities, I might even look at a different company, or maybe even leaving and
starting my own business and being an entrepreneur. If you are an entrepreneur
and you have negative people on your team, then that’s
an easier decision. If somebody is really
skilled and does a great job but they’re negative, they have to go. You cannot be surrounded
by negative people because they don’t only bring you down, they’ll bring everybody
else around you down. And so you need to have people
who are positive who are excited about the project
that you’re trying to build. (short percussion music) My number two technique for
managing negative people is to limit your exposure. So if you are forced to
deal with negative people, I would try to limit how
much exposure I have to them. How much time I have to
spend with them would be at the bare minimum, just
to get whatever project I’m trying to do and get it done. And so the first two points
are pretty negative, right? It’s avoid them, have zero exposure. The second one is to limit
your exposure and why? You know, if I’m thinking, well, I want to be a positive influence, I want to help them, I
want to build them up. Yes, that’s definitely a possibility. The reason why I start with
the negative is because the opportunity cost is so great. For you to spend your
time managing somebody who is negative, they will
eat up so much of your time and emotional capital and drain you, because they’re so different than you, and getting them to the
place where they can be happy is such a big journey that
you could spend that time helping 10 other people. And so I’ve always
experienced that the people who are negative take the
most work to turn around and usually it’s not worth
your time compared to the other people who you could be helping. So that’s why my first two
are really negative around not being around them at all
or limiting your exposure. (short percussion music) Alright, now let’s jump
to the positive side. Number three is be an inspiration. So, we have to around
these negative people, we have no other option,
they’re super important and we want to be the force for good. You can be an inspiration
to build people up. And so I think of when
women first get together in an office setting an
eventually their periods start to align together. That kind of happens with everything. If you are around toxic people, you’re more likely to be
toxic on an ongoing basis. If you’re around people who
are working out all the time, you’re more likely to want to work out and take care of yourself. If you’re around complainers, you’re going to start complaining more. And so you become your environment. So if you have that awareness, you can be an inspiration for that person. By them just being around you, you are going to pull them up. I used to volunteer at a
hospital, Sunnybrook Hospital here in Toronto, and one of
my shifts was with this woman who was in charge of
the phones on her floor. And she would also pick
up the phone in kind of very angry way. It was, C2 Laura, C2 Laura. It was kind of very angry
and it was kind of against how I would do things and just
the vibe I wanted to put out. And by spending more
and more time with her, eventually she got more positive. She said, C2 Laura, C2
this is Laura speaking. And it slowly got more and more
and more and more positive. Now, as I left Sunnybrook,
as my volunteer shift ended, I don’t know if that
continued or if she fell back to her usual path, but
expect that to happen. You know, the more they are around you, I want you to be a force for good, right? When you find your one
word, whatever that is, that exudes out of you in
every situation that you go to. So if you are around me for
any consistent period of time, even from watching the videos,
you’re going to believe harder, you’re going to believe
stronger in yourself, in your ideas, in the people around you because that’s what I’m all about. You can’t be in my circle and not gain a little bit more belief. It’s just going to happen. So that should be you with
your one word getting out there and being an inspiration for people. The danger is that, as I said, two people tend to come together, the danger is that you become
more toxic and you become more negative so you need
to have enough other stuff in your environment that
keeps you at a high level that pulls them you instead
of you going to them. (short percussion music) – Tip number four is to come
from a place of understanding. I think a lot of people’s
negativity is actually deeply rooted into something else beyond what they’re complaining about. So I had a situation with a
negative person on my team. They were constantly putting others down. They were constantly paranoid
about what the company’s situation was going to be like. And they were also gossiping
a lot and spreading rumors. And every single day he would complain. I would ask him how his
day’s going and he would just say it’s terrible. And it got to a point that
it was actually starting to make me feel negative
about my situation at work. And then finally I had to have a sit down conversation with him. I wanted to find out why
he was being so negative. Then he revealed to me
that he was paranoid of losing his job. He would wake up every morning
with a fear that he won’t be able to feed his family,
he will not be able to go on that vacation that
he promised his wife. Although I wasn’t able to
promise him the job security that he wanted, I was able to
provide him with the security and safety that he had someone at work that he could confide in. And little by little, I
started to see more positivity come out of him, especially towards me, which made my life at work a lot easier. So the next time you come
across someone negative, before you write them off, try to come from a place of understanding. (short percussion music) – Number five is figure out their dream. I like to say that one of
the most dangerous things that you can do is tell
me what your dream is. If I know what your dream is
then I am always thinking about how do I help this person at
this thing that they want to do and pushing you to get
past those limited beliefs and the negative mindsets to
help you go off and accomplish your big thing. And so even the most negative
person has some kind of dream. They may not feel it’s possible, they may feel like the
world’s against them and that people are conspiring to keep them down but somewhere deep down
inside they have a dream of something that they wan to accomplish. And so if you can figure
out what their dream is, and then find ways to
help them accomplish it, be their friend, be their
accountability partner, give them some resources, give them some motivational boosts, share things with them
to help them lift up and get towards that goal,
then it’s really hard to be making progress towards your dream and being negative and
unhappy at the same time. And so guiding them along
that path and encouraging them will help turn that tide
and turn them from being super negative to more positive. (short percussion music) Number six is recognize
their good behavior. This is basic parenting
skills or if you are trying to train a dog, it’s kind of the same thing. You have two options. You either punish their bad behavior or you recognize their good behavior. And you may not be in a
position to punish them for their bad behaviors and it may be actually what they want
because they seek the attention and they love going to a negative place. And so if I was dealing
with that kind of person, I had to deal with them,
then I’d be looking at the negative stuff I’m
just going to ignore and anytime there is something
positive that they do for me or the mindset that they have
or something that they shared that was happy, or funny, or positive, I would go all in on
encouraging that and thank them and appreciate them. Not in a fake way. Not in a way that they see,
obviously, right through but in the genuine way
of you really connecting to that thing that they did
for you and thanking them, maybe buying them a little
cupcake or something as a show of appreciation. Because negative people
aren’t surrounded by a lot of positivity in general. It’s how the become so negative. And so buy you recognizing
the good deeds that they did, giving them some appreciation,
giving them some rewards, they’re going to want to do
it again and again and again and lift out of that negativity. (short percussion music) And my number seven way to
deal with negative people is help them find a happier place. Quite often, negative
people are so bummed out by their position, by their work, they’re not passionate about it anymore, they don’t, you know, have
the desire to be there anymore and everybody would be
happier if they moved on. It kind of ties a little
bit into understanding what their dream is because
often if they have a dream and they’re doing something
totally different, then they’re going to
be negative and unhappy. They’re going to see
other people who are off accomplishing these
great things in the field that they want to be in and
they’re stuck in this job that they hate. And so helping push them
to follow that dream, find a happier place,
go pursue that passion, is great for them because they’re happier, they’re off doing the thing that they need and sometimes they just
need a little bit of a push. And it’s great for you because
now you don’t have to deal with this negative person in
your work environment anymore. So those are my top seven ways on how to manage negative people at work. I’d love to know what did you guys think? What was your favorite one? Which one really hit home? What can you apply to your business or maybe your life immediately? Leave it down in Comments below. Did I miss an eight, nine,
10 that you guys want to add to the list? I’m really curious to find out. I made this video because
Luis Tirelli asked me to. So, if there’s a topic
you’d like for me to cover in a future Seven Ways
series, check out the link in the description and
go and cast your vote. I also want to give a
quick shout out to Frode from the Actualize YouTube Channel. Thank you so much, man, for
picking up a copy of my book, Your One Word, and doing
the review on your channel. I really, really appreciate
the support and I’m so glad that you love the book. So thank you, guys, so much for watching. I believe in you. I hope you continue to believe in yourself and whatever your one word is. Much love. I’ll see you soon. (dramatic sibilant music)

Has Jenny FINALLY secured a deal!? 😱 | Dragons’ Den – BBC


Next up is mumpreneur Hazel Reynolds who enters the den after just four months of giving birth to her second child. I’ve literally just breastfed my baby before i go into the den so she’s nice and content and I’ve been lucky enough to not get any baby sick on me. All good! (laughs) The business is my third baby and being able to combine running your own business with becoming a mum it’s a dream come true. ‘Laugh more’ That’s true Hello My name is Hazel Reynolds my company is Gamely and i’m here today offering 10% equity in exchange for £50,000 and your expertise. Our first

How To Start A PROFITABLE Auto Detailing Business


– Hey, what is going on you guys? Welcome back to the channel. So I’m here with my friend Chris here. So I’m gonna be shadowing
Chris for the day, talking about auto detailing and how to start this business. How much you make with this business, and everything related to that. So should be a pretty interesting video. If you guys like seeing this type of in real life-type content, go ahead and drop a like on
this video just so I know. But yeah, I’ll probably
have Chris do an intro maybe in his car or somethin’ as we’re movin’ along here. So, lookin’ forward to
showin’ this to you guys. The first thing I wanna ask you is can you just maybe explain what it is that your business is, what it is you’re doin’
on a day-to-day basis? – So I detail cars inside and out I polish paint. I make the interiors look clean again and I’m basically traveling out of my car to a client’s location or
a dealership’s location, and just wash the car, wax it. Sometimes I do some ceramic coating. And that’s basically my day, is I spend my day in the car traveling to people’s
houses and dealerships to get the cars clean. It’s worth my drive too, ’cause you get to see all
the cool, scenic drives and I like being in the car. And then when you get there it’s rewarding to be at that beautiful place and be able to do someone’s car, see their house. I like to ask a lot of questions. How did you get to where
you are in your career, and kinda pick people’s brains
’cause I’m starting off. – Yeah, that’s really
cool to like ask people and I’ve always done that too. Any time when I was
younger if I saw somebody driving a Lamborghini
or something as a kid. I’d go up to them, be like, what do you do to afford this car? – Yeah.
– You know? So I guess my question now would be, what kind of costs are associated with starting up an auto detailing business? And I know the way you do it with the mobile detailing business is a lot less overhead. Because you’re pretty much doing it at the customer’s garage, right? – Yeah, so I’ve got a couple
of different scenarios, where I’ve been doing this business. Where I did have overhead. I had $1,100 rent at one shop. I’ve been with different
partners at different shops. Right now I’m doing it mobile. I do have one small garage, if I say needed a place
to store some tools there. That’s only 250 a month,
for my small garage. For me that’s like one detail out of the 30 days of the month that I have to put aside for that. And then other than that,
it’s chemical costs. Vacuums, pressure washers, hoses. But I found a lot of the ways to eliminate all those extra stuff that sometimes people think they need, when they get in this business. There’s a lot of info on how
to start a detail business, that says you need 30 products. I probably use under 10. And I’ve kinda perfected what I’m buying and how much I’m spending on what I get. – That’s great, yeah. So as far as detailing goes, I’m sure there’s multiple
different packages. But, give me an example
of one of your packages. Maybe your most popular one. How much are you charging? What are your costs with that? And then like how much are
you making as a profit? – So my average detail is
anywhere between 150 to $250, based on the size of the vehicle
and the condition it’s in. And I probably pay under
$3 in chemical costs and then whatever my driving and fuel is to their destination. – Wow, so this is probably like 90% plus profit margin type business? – It’s all sweat money. – Yeah.
– Really. So–
– That’s great man, yeah. – I try to make anywhere
between 250 to $400 a day, if I can. 250 would by like the least amount I’d like to make in a day, if
I’m working five days a week. – Wow, that’s pretty good. All right, so we’re on our
way to the first detail now. And what kinda car’s this guy got? – I think we’re probably
gonna be working on a purple wide body Porsche 911. – [Ryan] Okay. – And then, possibly an Audi S7. There’s a Range Rover too. I’m not sure what he has in store for me but this is a good customer of mine. He asks me to do a lot
of work on his vehicles. Last time I did, he brought them out to Toronto for a car show
and won a couple of trophies. So now we’re gonna polish them up again and make sure they’re still looking good. We’re in my buddy Wideout’s house. He’s got a couple of cars here, we’re not sure what
we’re working on today. This is 09 Porsche 911, wide body. This is a 2017 Audi S7. And I think it’s an OE Range Rover. So one of these three,
or all three of these are gonna get some work done to them. They’ve been worked on
a couple of weeks ago. They got some trophies over
in Importfest in Toronto, the day after. So it makes me feel pretty good and it’s good to be back here, doin’ some more work on these cars. (upbeat music) So today, we’re gonna do the
interior on these three cars. The Raptor, the Porsche and the Audi. They should be quite clean but we just wanna get them
looking a little better. Especially before winter comes and we’re gonna get all salt in it. So, we’ll give it a good refresh and then it’s got a little more time to pick up more dirt
and then get done again. Be this car as well and
also the purple Porsche. And, some of the tools that I use. Really simple sets of brushes. But they all have their own purpose. Just generic toothbrushes,
large handled scrub brushes. And then I’ve got some
other ones that are rubber for getting in little tight spots. And other things with felt on them, to get dash fans, things like that. So it’s more like having the right tool. All my job is, is moving
my hand left to right and knowing which product and which tool to be doing it with. So, once you figure out all that stuff. I really carry a light package. A couple of brushes, a bag full of towels, a bottle of cleaner and then
polishers for the outside. – [Ryan] You said the buffer was like the most
expensive thing you bought. – This would be one of the most expensive. It’s the Rupes. This polisher cost me
like 400 something bucks. Then with pads and everything, it came out to be a little over 500. But I’ll tell you, it’s honestly
makes my job a lot easier. I used to use $60 polishers
and take hours doing stuff. But, that’s a lot quicker
than any one I’ve ever used. So I guess it’s worth it for
me to buy something like that. – [Ryan] So what would you
say your all in cost is here on getting started with like the very basics of detailing? – When I first started the
business two years ago, I probably got into it at about $380. That’s including a
pressure washer, a buffer, a vacuum, extension
cords, towels, polishers and a set of chemicals. Like glass cleaner, all-purpose cleaner and de-greaser and soap. I’ve had more expensive tools. I’ve gotten new ones, old
ones, blah, blah, blah. But like now, I’m probably
goin’ round in my car with an under $400 setup still. Just to start of with, just
pulled the mats out of the car. We’re gonna start taking
out all the dirt first. That’s the first thing you wanna do, is get all the hard stuff out. Kinda get an idea what you’re looking at without all the stuff from
your dirt on your feet. You know what I mean? ’cause once you take out
the mats, vacuum it up, it really just comes down
to looking at the surfaces. Picking which product to
use, which tool to use, and how to get it off. So I like to start with a vacuum first. Get the heavy dirt off, start to see the light at the
end of the tunnel right away. You know what I mean? This is a two seater, four seater and then we’ve got the big truck. – [Ryan] What do you
think time wise you have between the three of these, it will take? – To be honest it’s probably
only gonna take me like a half hour to do this one, maybe less. Same with the Audi and then
the truck might take me 45 to an hour to do. So for three interiors,
that’s not a bad timeframe. Two hours, I’ve got my travel time here, but it’s worth it to come out here. I come out here often,
take care of some of these. – [Ryan] And what do you usually charge for like this level of
detail, per vehicle? – So on a vehicle like this, we’re gonna charge anywhere about like 250 for a full detail. So for just the interior
it might be like a hundred to a 125 depending on condition. He’s got three cars and I come here often so I’d work out a nice price with him. – [Ryan] All right, so what
have we got goin’ on right now? – So I’m wanted to make
some extra room in my car. I left the vacuum at home. Most places I go, like I
know he has a vacuum here. Some of the dealerships have a vacuum. But you don’t have the right heads. So, I’m just gonna tape this one on. – [Ryan] It’s a little trade secret here. (laughter) A little duck tape action. – Just gotta make sure there’s no air. Enough duck tape will fix anything. (upbeat music) (engine rumbling) (upbeat music) – So, this cars got
custom floor mats in it that are the same stitching as the seat. They actually slide up
underneath the plastic. So every part of the carpet
is pretty much protected. Which makes cleaning it awesome. It’s like really thick durable leather. Hard to scratch, hard to really rip but it looks great. It’s quality matching the seats, so for me that makes my life a lot easier. We’ve got the Audi logos in
it, the stitching on there. And then it’s just striped
but it’s all one uni-mat. So I gotta roll the other seat forward, pull the thing out, it’s huge. So this car was sitting outside and the wind took a tent that was held down by five pound weights, up in the air and just scuffed the car. We just got some of it out in the door, that we didn’t think might come out. So we’re gonna show you
guys buffing on these marks, to try and get them out. (upbeat music) (buffer humming) – [Ryan] So what’d you
think, you’d get it out? – I wasn’t sure. But, I think it’s an improvement. That’s what we’ve decided. What we did on the door to here now. I’ll shine my phone light on
there just so you can see. It looks better to the naked eye, but if you get up close, you can really tell that
something did happen. Here’s some of the mark. But, again it’s on the roof of an SUV, so we made it look better. I wouldn’t say it’s completely gone but I’d say that’s a fix. (engine rumbling) – [Logan] Right here,
– [Ryan] Yeah. – [Logan] It goes on tap, it has those two little eyes on tap. This is a Slantnose conversion. So it’s got it’s own 935, 930
Slantnose heritage styling. – [Ryan] So, is this normally part of your detailing experience? – No. This is why I have to
clean the cars often. – [Ryan] This is why you’re employed? – [Chris] Yeah. (tires squealing) (laughter) – You love and hate to
see it at the same time. (laughter) – [Ryan] Oh my god. Oh my god. – [Logan] Fuckin peg man run out. – [Ryan] Oh it’s just the one tire? – [Logan] Yeah. – [Ryan] Dude look at
the amount of plastic. – [Chris] Oh damn, that’s pretty bad. That poor tire. – [Ryan] That tire’s
basically shot now, or what? – [Chris] Not quite. She’s good. I’ll tell you what’s not shot, my career. (laughter) – [Ryan] This keeps you in business. – All right, so we’re just
finishing up for the day. And it’s one of my favorite parts about doing mobile detailing. – [Logan] Gotta include that. – Days over, finally get to enjoy a beer and also this beautiful sunset, at a beautiful location. So what I do, I go to a
new place almost every day. Sometimes repeat places. But it’s great to see
how other people live. Their properties, their
homes and their vehicles. – [Logan] Salute. – This is Logan, follow him
in Instagram, he’s Wideout. He’s got all these cool
cars you’ve seen today. – [Logan] Ah, they’re trash.

Pat O’Connor Orthopedic Trauma Devices Business Opportunity


OrthoXel was founded in June of 2014 on the back of the body of research that was completed in Cork Institute of Technology’s Medic Center We are an orthopaedic trauma company focused on the development & commercialization of intramedullary nails for the treatment of tibia and femoral fractures. When we incorporated OrthoXel we had a very clear perspective on how to productise the basic research from CIT. However, we needed resources and funding and what we’ve done is we have resourced or funded the company through private investors, Enterprise Ireland and Local Enterprise Office. Those funding sources have enabled us to develop the technologies, through the CE mark, US FDA approval and European Clinical Study. As an orthopaedic trauma company we operate in a very competitive market which is dominated by a number of orthopaedic multinationals, because of that, we know need a very clever innovative technology to compete and so we’ve set about developing a new standard of care for treatment of tibia and femoral fractures. We’ve built our foundations on rigorous technical developments, clinical regulatory work, with the objective of developing the best tibial and femoral nail products on the market, with accelerated healing and improved patient outcomes and this objective has been borne out by the results of our clinical study and the data analysis to date. OrthoXel is primarily a technology development company with significant skills in technology development and commercialization. We recognize that the most efficient route to market for us is to leverage sale channels of an established orthopaedic multinational we will spend the next 12 to 15 months completing our technical development & clinical activities on the tibial & femoral products to position ourselves for a commercial deal in 2020. You

Business Advice You Can’t Afford to NOT Follow (4Ds)


– You think I’m popular now,
wait ’til shit hits the fan. (hip hop music) You’ve got more perspective. I just want to be happy. Don’t you want to be happy? (electronic music) What can I answer for you? So I’ve got a good
concept of where I think most of your people are. – [Man] Two pronged really. Number one, how do we
hit big, big businesses in terms of getting in with a
person you need to speak to. – Well, why do you want to
get into big businesses? – [Man] Because that’s the people that are already paying money to
the government right now. – So, I think, I totally understand. So, I think you do it, you know, it’s going to be interesting. There’s going to be a
lot of similar answers. I would do unlimited LinkedIn content with paid LinkedIn ads directly
against the people you want. So if you want RBS Bank, I would literally make a video or a white
paper or an article that would write, “Does
the banking community”, so you don’t go directly RBS.
– Yeah. – Because you can get others. “Does the banking community in the UK understand on average
they’re throwing away 3.7 million pounds”. You’ve got to do some homework. You know, this is crazy, just last year, blah, blah, blah, HSBC wasted two million. We’ve got the solution and literally I would target those ads
against the CFOs and HR. It’s interesting to have
Allen here and his HR friend. Like literally the HR exec, Allen’s my CFO, CFOs and HR people against the company’s that
you’re trying to reach. – Yeah.
– And I would do that 50 times. So it’s funny to have Andy here. We were filming something the other day. Like to me, it’s all contextual content against media spend, so what my team has done very well is they
take content I naturally do, hence I’m filming it,
and then we do ad spend. But then once in awhile
they’ll ask me to film something and they’re like,
hey we need an Instagram swipe up ad for this
and I, like every time yell at them and say,
“Guys, I’m right here.” So let me, instead of like doing swipe up and buy my sneakers, they
can be like, hey Mexico swipe up and buy my sneakers,
because just by doing that and then targeting Mexico, the
ads are convert differently. So, if you noticed, what most people do is hey London, or Britain or Europe, did you know that there’s this law? What I want you to do is make literally the same video 87 times. Does the banking community,
like you start with. If you notice what I’m
doing with the video. I’m not giving anybody a
sec, I’ve got three seconds. – Yeah.
– Hey banking community, boom. Now they’re stopped. The title says, the wording is banking, this is banking and they’re a
banking HR and CFO executive. Do you understand?
– Yeah. – It’s literally that. And by the way, as you can
imagine, works for most of you. You want to get distribution
on a cruise line because you don’t have
it for the corn yet. You go, hey cruise executives. Like literally, it’s
really scary how universal that advice is, but
that’s what I would do. LinkedIn ads, which are
overpriced in my opinion, but are so, actually be unfair. I call them overpriced
because they have a floor. It’s not a marketplace
the way Facebook is, so you can’t, you know. (laughs) It’s overpriced in the fact that, what’s amazing about
Facebook and Instagram and Google and all the
things quant advertisers, somebody who spends six
million on something. Whether it’s eye ads back in the day or end game or whatever it may be. Him and I are always
going to love something that starts at zero and the
market makes it go to 80 dollars because moments in time allow for things to be grossly underpriced. What we hate is the way that you know, New Corps sells, which
is you try to buy an ad in the Sun and it’s $15,000. They’ve inflated the floor. LinkedIn is an inflated floor, however if you are a B to B marketer
there is a disproportional value prop and in that
sense, I’m correcting myself if it’s inflated, but it converts, it’s not inflated by definition. I think it will work for you. Media always, being a content– (missing video) – [Man] He wants to be a personal trainer. – Unbelievably. First of all, you
immediately leave LinkedIn. You go directly into Instagram. You go to Instagram
stories, because I think they’re grossly under-priced and you do swipe-up campaigns against trainers. And as I think we all know, the entire fitness community is living in Instagram. – [Man] Yeah, definitely. – And then again, you can do something, literally the content or the spokesperson addresses a female trainer,
a part-time female trainer, a full-time female trainer,
a full-time male trainer, a part-time male trainer,
trainers that work at gyms and you’re trying
to encourage them to leave. I mean, as you can see. The big thing that I don’t
think people understood and to be very frank, is now
becoming a new conversation, even amongst my team and
definitely VaynerMedia itself, is the vulnerability and
the thing that everybody has to close the gap on
is the volume of content. – [Man] Yeah. – It’s the content, right. Like again, I’m using him only
because he’s so quant based. If you know anything about gaming, it’s like, it’s fucking math. What the math kids, why math
kids lose to a guy like me that doesn’t rely on math
is I know that the art is a much bigger factor
than they want to admit because math kids don’t want art to matter and art kids don’t want math to matter. But they both matter
and they matter equally. When I say equally, if you
actually disproportionately respect the math and the art equally and you make them play
together, like a diamond in that friction, is all the magic. For you two, the next frontier is math. Is running your paid media better. Is targeting employees. Employees is back on Facebook, right Andy? – [Andy] Yeah, I was going to jump in. The (muffled) is fluctuating, but they introduced some (muffled). – Right, so you’re going to be able to use employees like LinkedIn. You guys can literally
get every single person that works IDO to know who you are. Tomorrow, you could. And of course, 80% of them
are going to be elitists and be like “fuck these
gals”, but 20 are not. – Yeah.
– And in those 20 is a lot of opportunity for you of people you want to recruit to
work for you one day because they’re tire of that or they just love you and
it’s a gal executive who like somebody comes in
and IDO is too expensive and they’re like “you know
who you should go check out”. You know how it works, got it? – [Man] Planning is the key,
but isn’t it making sure if I’m giving one person for one day an influence, for example, to do filming I need to know prior
what bit to send content, how many times and what I need to do. – To that person if you
want to use them as the ad? – Yeah.
– 100%. – Yeah, so planning is the key. – So, planning up front is the key. It’s a modern day production
schedule that doesn’t exist. That we’re trying to
introduce in our company, which I used an example
with my Budweiser team the other day, I’m like,
you’re going to have Adam Driver the actor and
you’re going to do this incredible video, which they did. I’m like, but when you’re there, my team knows now to make 80 pieces of content, not just one, but I threw
a curve ball at them. I’m like, no, no also bring a soccer ball that has nothing to do with anything and just like, I don’t know,
like kick a soccer ball at a bottle of Budweiser
and film that too. You’re there anyway. Like the volume is the
game, so I first got them from okay, Adam Driver’s here,
let’s make a one three-minute film that’s amazing, but
$300,000 also while you’re there take 80 pictures with him,
take the scenes of it, create the collateral, the sawdust, make 94 pieces of content. Cool, so we’re at some level
there to not there at Vayner. Now, I’m introducing cool
and while you’re there bring an umbrella, a soccer
ball, bring four actors. You know, African-American,
Latino, you know Pacific Asian, like leave
there with 947 pieces of content around 37 pillars of different, like brand pillars, not
just the interpretation of the one thing you’re doing. We’re filming a Super Bowl
spot with Charlize Theron for Budweiser, but while you’re
there for two fucking days instead of everybody looking at each other and fucking jerking off and doing shit, which is what happens. I mean, I literally can’t go
look at a production shoot for VaynerMedia or any
other production company in the world because it is the
stupidest shit of all time. Like, I don’t know what else to say. There’s tons of people,
I mean, doing nothing. (laughs) I don’t know what else to say. – [Woman] How much of what you’re making are you actually distributing? Like is it–
– Me Gary, or Vayner? – Uh, Gary.
– Both, me. Uh, that’s funny you bring that up because we were just
having that discussion literally as I was walking in here. I would say, first of all, the
team has control of things. So there’s certain things
that are being posted. I’m completely 100% in
control of my Instragram. I am, for the first time, only
98% in control of my Twitter because I’m doing this, if
you follow me on Twitter, this add your two cents. It’s longer form Twitter,
you can’t upload natively anything over a minute in video, so they have to do it
for my four minute clips and this got me to the first time very, I’m like you know what, you guys post it. I can’t post it anyway, you’ll post it. But in that sense I’m
100% in control of Twitter and Instagram, of that,
probably I would say 70, 60% of what you guys
are sending me I’m posting. Instagram is the funny debate because I’m spending a lot of time there
and I have to really feel it and in their production a lot of times they’ll miss what I’m feeling
and thus I won’t put it or I’m cool with it,
perfect, which is easy or I figured out how to
support it with the copy that I write to make it post, but you asked a very important question. One would say, oh my God,
I have 20 people working. Designers, video people,
they’re working all day. They’re making stuff and
I’m only posting half. Half, let’s go with that. That’s unbelievably inefficient. I would argue it’s not,
I would argue the fact that we’re just making,
it’s unbelievably efficient even if I don’t post
it and then that’s why we created the Team Gary V
account because we’re like, fuck we have it, let’s post it somewhere. So, that’s been working. To me, versus me coming in
and being the bottleneck up front, I’d rather just
be the toll booth at the end and then be thoughtful
and see how I evolved by me being smart of not
being the bottleneck up front, which is what everybody
does because it’s all ego. And as a human it’s really intense, but even as brands,
Adidas or Juice or Corn. It’s all ego, things don’t get posted. People overthink the living shit out of the content they post. It’s completely insecurity,
it’s overthinking, it’s ego. It’s all bad. What we did is we evolved and realized, oh shit, even in the 50%
that we’re not posting we figured out a way to
innovate and create Team Gary V to post that, so we
became less inefficient. That’s your answer. – [Woman] Yeah, yeah. (whispering) – [Woman] So, you’ve talked a lot about not monitizing your audience.
– Yes. – [Woman] And (muffled) leaders in that, but like–
– You’ve gone there and I think, and listen, I know that. I really wish I could have told everybody what I thought your
question was going to be because I knew this was
going to be your question and you’ll never believe why. It was why I listen up front, you know, there’s a post out where I’m
really interrupting somebody and I always laugh, I’m
so good at listening it makes me seem like I’m not listening. I’m always interrupting
because I want to get to the value punchline. Like, I knew you were going to ask that because you said that people are making hundreds of thousands of dollars
on the back of your thing, so I knew that you cared about it and you were worried about and that was your justification to why it’s okay. – [Woman] Exactly, yeah. (laughs) (laughs) – I know I’m right. But it makes me happy because it means your intent is right and that
already means you’re good. So, I talk about not
monetizing my audience, but I need to do a better job of clarifying it and
that’s why these settings are good and that’s why
my evolution is good. For example, a video
I’m about to post, oh. A hack we came up with
literally just a week ago was we realized, and we
brought it up before, but we got serious about it
just maybe a week or two ago. They are no longer titling any of my Instagram meme content, I am. That’s where I was getting hurt. It didn’t feel right and all I have to do, which takes time that I don’t have, is now they’re sending me the raw videos, I’m titling it, sending
it back, then they’re sending it back and
we’ve seen real success. In that, I titled on
yesterday on the way to London called, “When You Give, Give. When You Sell, Sell.” So, couple things, one, I
don’t monetize my audience, but I’m very comfortable to ask for people to buy sneakers, books
and soon soon now wine. So, I do, it’s just I
don’t want to monetize my information, which is a clarity. You’re monetizing your information, which I don’t think is a problem. I think the reason I feel
so good about what you’re doing is I can tell your intent is right and the only vulnerability you have, and I don’t sense that either from you, is you just have to not be full of shit. – [Woman] Yeah. – That’s all.
– Yeah. – I don’t know what else to tell you. Like, the reason I’ve pushed so back on people monetizing, is I’m
going after the lowest common denominator, kind of life coach, who has nothing to bring and
went to a top of the funnel conversion conference and
wants to be just that guy. – Yeah.
– We know what we’re talking about. You guys are professionals,
you did something. Look, this took me years
to do this, what I’m doing. I don’t feel unbelievable
about everybody here pay … It had to be VaynerMedia, not me. You’re all here because of me. I then coerced it to be more VaynerMedia, which on that 10,000 that
I could keep for myself, I’m getting, you know
187 bucks after profit. You know, and that as important for me. – Yeah.
– I’m okay with that. But I needed that, even
though this could be a 50 million dollar business. Like, my whole life could be this. More, like I could have the biggest mastermind of them all. So, A, you have to be okay with it. I’m okay with this and I’m
not okay with a 50 million dollar mastermind.
– Yeah. – I feel like if you feel
like you have a skill set, I think Design Sprints
is a very good genre. I think what you need to think about is where you’re going to get
caught, and a couple of you, is always think about brand over sales. So, for instance, your busy now
and you’ve made hundreds … You know, how long have
you had the thing overall? – The online, the company?
– No, the whole company itself.
– Like six years. – Right.
– But only in the last like. – I know, I know I’m about to jump in. In six months for you to
generate something that creates half the revenue that
something that’s six years old. And think about how easy it is versus how hard the other half is. What you’re going to go through is what I go through everyday. This whole thing, the
entire Vayner X World, not just VaynerMedia, the
Pure Wow stuff, the 137. And you’ll be seeing me
announce a lot of companies in the next six months,
it’s all not smart, in the short term finances for me. None of it. This has been a waste of my
time for the last seven years in the prime of my career. You don’t like giving up 36
to 43 during an economic boom. The discipline it’s taken
me to know that I’m building a framework for 50 years
during a very good time in my life, which has
also forced me to travel while I have kids, I’m in my
prime, I have plenty of energy, I’m not sick, everything’s good. This is golden years, like
you can do a lot of damage and the economy’s been frothy. Scum buckets are making tens of million on crypto currency fraud, right. So, I will never, I will
be so revered in 40 years when people look back at
the level of discipline that I deployed during
the amount of opportunity that’s in front of me. That’s what I want you to do. What do I mean by that? While you make your product better, run ads to convert more
and all that stuff. You equally, to really
answer your real question, have to allocate one to two hours a day to do podcasts to put a flag in the ground around Design Sprints.
– Yeah. – Which bring you zero
ROI in the short term. – Yeah, my podcast is doing really well. – Not your podcast.
– Oh. – You need distribution, you need to go on other podcasts and spread your message. It’s okay to sell, as long as you’re not disguising it as you’re
trying to help people. – Yeah, right.
– That’s what we’ve done with (muffled).
– That’s it, I love selling, but just don’t be full of shit. Like, I love when I go into sales mode because some of my fans get really mad. They’re like “Ohhhh!” I’m like. I laugh, I’m like, no, no,
I’m not making you buy this. I’m not one of those funnel people where you come in, it seems
like I’m giving you good information, then it stops and then says if you want the real, real good stuff, put in your credit card and get the next to hours of this video. No, no you’re more … I’m pumped that people have never bought a bottle of wine from Wine Library, a sneaker from K-Swiss, for Ds. I’m trilled, don’t even know. Don’t spend a second on
it, have no knowledge. Just know how big my audience is compared to my conversion, that I
know a whole lot don’t. Doesn’t even cross my mind. Got it.
– Yeah. – When you give you give,
when you sell you sell. – Yeah.
– Don’t mix them. That’s why I wrote Jab,
Jab, Jab, Right Hook. Some people, most people, sales people needed to learn about jabbing. – Yeah.
– But ironically, a lot of very awesome
people and very sweet people and very good people, really
need to learn how to sell. They’re like Gary, your
model doesn’t work. I’m like, did you ask to sell anything? Well no, I’m uncomfortable to ask. I’m like, that’s your problem. (laughs) I’m like, if you always
give and never ask. It’s not take, it’s not
steal, it’s not manipulate, it’s not cohort, it’s not trick, it’s ask. Like in a month you’re
going to see I’m starting a wine project, I’d like you to buy it. If you don’t, you don’t. Like I don’t know, we’re
back to our scheduling regularly program of like
free content around business. If you buy wine. Why I like sneakers is
people buy sneakers. So, if I’ve brought you value. If there is a brand association, if you like the way they
look and it’s a 50/50 toss between you’d normally wear Adidas and you’re willing to buy
K-Swiss, well that’s a good thing. That’s how I can get that sale. But it’s not like all
of the sudden tomorrow I’m no longer putting out the level of, like all the sudden you
notice I’m not putting out content anymore, it’s
not as good when I do, if feels more promotional
to something that’s coming. And that is to be paid for. It’d be like what you’re
doing, all the sudden if that was a pay-per-view
show, not just the way, got it.
– Yeah. – If all of the sudden, you’re doing this. If you’re doing it for just brand, which it seems like you
are, and it’s going to be on Youtube and Facebook,
then that’s great. But if all the sudden it wasn’t and it was 9.99 to subscribe to it. That would be like, oh
shit, that feels a little like you did all … What people don’t want is
you did all this, for this. You were tricking me. So sometimes people interpret
that when I’m selling sneakers and I jump into the comments. I’m like, you’re a fucking idiot. (laughs) I’m like, that’s why I went so hardcore between, you know, my content
and the things I sell. That’s why this was harder because this is far more associated
than sneakers and wines. Which is why I had to
make it Vayner, not me. Make sense?
– Yeah. – Seeing the patterns.
– Can I ask a kind of selfish question?
– Yeah. That’s what this is for.
– Um, so I, Laura and I work with our CEO,
directly, and he is a person who is quite similar to you, so he is. – Handsome.
(laughs) – Yeah.
– Modest. (laughs) – Wait, wait, wait, talk to me about this. This is a new dynamic,
there’s a CEO to this company? You’re both employees of this company? – People (muffled) two different parts of the company, directly
under the company order. – I understand, you have no equity, either one of you in the company? – (muffled)
– Understood. (laughs) Go ahead.
– We’re working on it. – Go ahead.
– So basically he is like high energy, like very
intelligent, super … – Switched on.
– Switched on all the time, has a lot of ideas, right. A lot of people in the company, I think everyone.
– How many people in the company?
– Like 18. – We are like 15 to 18 (muffled). – Keep going. – A lot of people in the
company find it actually quite difficult to work with him. – Makes sense.
– Because he comes in, he bulldozes, he runs around.
– It’s disrupting, yeah. – And yells ideas at you
and you’re like great I only have 800 other things going on. – Yes.
– So, what I’m wondering. – Does he do anything practical? I mean this, this is a
really important question. We won’t use it, I need
the answer to this. I do that, but what makes
me palpable to my team is I also do practical
things, thus it offsets. It becomes more creative
and entrepreneurial versus disruptive and a
clown and a caricature. – Do you mean practical. Like, do you mean that you’re
in client meetings, like talking and that kind of stuff. – Mm-hmm, I’m in HR meetings,
I’m in finance meetings, I sell.
– Yeah, yeah. – Like people take credit for
things that I actually did because I did a meeting
at 10 o’clock to midnight to get us that business.
– Right. – When put, when we go
naked, all of the sudden everybody will realize, for example, it took people a little while. People like you guys in the outside would say Gary as the CEO of VaynerMedia, has people running that
company and he’s Gary V. What people on the inside know is not only is that not true and
I’m the CEO of the company I’m also really the COO,
like if you asked Allen. You know, you know we’re seen. If you ask him, he’ll tell you. Like I’m the COO and CEO. That’s what makes me
being ridiculous palpable. I’m actually executing. – Okay.
– That’s a very important thing. – Yeah.
– That’s where people like me are accepted
by the org, versus not. – So what would be your
advise for somebody who’s in our position, like we’re both, we’re very hard working,
we’re super dedicated, we want to do a really good job. Like what’s our best way to, I don’t know, do best at the company if
we’re constantly kind of feeling like —
– What does best mean? Does that.
– Like worst best with you. – [Woman] Work best with someone like you. – Why do you want to? (laughs) – I think the company is
completely similar to your, like completely independently owned, so everything is at the, like
there’s a lot of opportunity. – [Woman] Opportunity to, and also we can come with like, we can
literally change the face of — – Well, is he, this is where you know. It’s really interesting. Somebody, I made a decision yesterday on the flight out here
to never say that I have narcissistic tendencies
because I say that at times about being like an extrovert
and being out there. Somebody left a comment in a Youtube video that I was reading yesterday that said, “Fucking narcissist,”
right, in a negative way. I was like, huh, sometimes
I say that about myself, it might be a good idea for me to actually look up what a narcissist is. (laughs) And when I looked it up, I was like, oh shit, I’m only four of these 12 things and the eight of them are terrible. Like insecure, fear, like
I’m like I’m not that at all. And so, I’m like I’m not
going to use that anymore. I’m going to stick more with extrovert, because I’m giving permission
for people to believe that truth, when wow, I
didn’t realize how off that is for what I actually am. This is leading me to this question. That’s why I painted that picture. Is this an individual that
you can gave a canderous conversation with or
will that be the worst? – I do feel like I can.
– Yeah. – Well then you have to.
– yeah. – That’s your answer. The answer is we don’t debate it here in a conversation, the
answer is you sit down and have dinner and say
we’re at a crossroads where we think this company’s
going to the next level. We, us, maybe there’s a third, we think we’re a big part of it. I want to be, like I like
you and you’re likable and I want to be here,
because my main question is why do you want to,
because my main thing was like why don’t you go do this yourself. But if you’re going to do it with him because you do see the values
of it, you articulate it. Whether he changes or
not, it’s on the record. It’s something you can
point to on Thursday. If you and I have dinner and you’re like, Gary, you get a little
ridiculous sometimes and then I come in and
start getting ridiculous and you can look at me
and I’m like, oh shit. You’re talking about last
Thursday’s dinner aren’t you. (laughs) It helps. You haven’t laid down the context. – Yeah.
– The answer to your question is radical candor.
– Yeah, (muffled). – Yep, so I think you have to do that. I think the question becomes,
that can go one of two ways. It unbelievably works with me. I love when people come
with radical candor with me for two reasons, one, 25%
of the time they’re right. 75% of the time I can tell them what’s actually happening that
they’re confused by, right. When you have employees. Everybody here judges me,
but they have no context. It’s not their fault, I
don’t think they’re stupid. I think I’m looking down
and they’re looking up. When you look down from
an airplane at the UK, you can see a lot more than
when you’re in this office. So, I love it because 25% of the time, they can see my humility
and I’m appreciative and I can see their
smarts and we move forward and it builds a real relationship. 75% of the time it re-enforces my genius or uniqueness to them. Because you think
somebody’s smart who cares, who’s willing to give you radical candor and then you throw something
at them that they never thought of and they’re like,
fuck that’s true, shit. It gives them confidence in their leader. I only, I tell my company all the time, I want to be the reverse of
the emperor with no clothes because the second you walk
into my office, we’ve won. It’s either going to be
25%, you’re 100% right and you can see my humility and acceptance or 75% of the time
you’re going to walk out being more confident in me. You should have that meeting to figure out if that’s the framework or if it’s insecurity, which leads to
get the fuck out of here, you don’t know what the
fuck you’re talking about. When you own your own business,
it manifests different. – Yeah.
– I can say when you own your own business, you’ll understand, in a far more professional
way by bringing them respect and explaining it to them versus being hyperbolized in that moment. – [Man] That’s difficult. – [Woman] Yeah. – Yeah, and I think it is difficult, but I think for me it’s
why I’m successful. Everything good should be difficult. You know, when people
are like, man you deploy so much humility for your position. I’m like, yeah, but that’s
why I like just starting. The hardest things lead
to the best results. – [Woman] Morgan was worried about, and you’re team kind of (muffled) kind of organization,
what’s your biggest worry? – I mean, my biggest
worry is losing somebody who’s good because they’re
confused on what’s going on. But that’s on me, not on them. – Yeah.
– And just knowing that I can’t get to everything,
all the time, always, but I can to the best of my ability. And that’s that. But at 18, it’s like,
I would rip my arm off to have 18 employees, it would be so easy. (laughs) – [Woman] Yeah, it’s
nice, we’re a nice size. – [Woman] Yeah. If you could build a social media, if you had to build a social media team of three people, what
would their roles be? – Writer, creator of video and pictures and distributor of the content with a backbone in paid distribution. A writer, a creative, who
does video and pictures. (laughs) Everyone’s super happy. One person has to write.
– Yeah. – One person has to create
the videos and pictures and one person has to
know how to distribute it contextually to the places
where they attention is. – [Woman] With paid (muffled). – Yes, I would have that
person grounded in the paid. I mean, everyone’s
ideological about organic. But to me, it’s like when
there’s something to buy that’s a deal and you
have the money, buy it. And that’s what I think
Facebook and Instagram ads are right now.
– But are you looking for people who can do all of these things? Like someone like.
– D Rock. The way I look at D
Rock is I do think video and pictures.
– Graphic. – What do I look for?
– Graphic. – Graphic, thank you. I think video and graphic,
I think people separate those two, I put them in one, but I do not think somebody
that has a creative eye or is a designer, a
videographer or designer, let’s go very literal, I do think should be in one predator, right. You know, produce, edit, in one. I do think, and I’ve seen
with D Rock and others, Caleb. You can video, you can
post produce a video, you can also make pictures. I believe that is one person. It is more rare for
that same person to also be a great copywriter.
– Yeah. – It is more rare for that person to also be able to be great at
Facebook and Instagram ads or distribution.
– (muffled) – That’s right, so I’m comfortable in those being, your very literal
answer, that is the triangle. And when I talk, once
in awhile depending on how do you guys watch my content about my 20 person team,
I know I only need three. I do 20 because I want
them to all disperse into other parts of
the company eventually. And I’m doing some other
shit, like random stuff. – Cool.
– Yeah, when I hear people like, that’s the team.
– Yeah. – That’s the triangle.
– And writers they’re writing captions, they’re writing titles, they’re writing descriptions, all that. – They’re transcribing from videos into a LinkedIn article.
– Right. – Like, you know, that kind of stuff. Somebody had to write that
88 page dec that we put out. You know, you’ve got
to put words to things. You’ve got to put pictures
and videos to things. You have to know how to
get people to see them. Very basic.
– Cool. – [Man] So you’re saying that
one person does all of those things?
– No, I’m saying three people should do those things. Listen, there are, you know what’s ironic. I was that person. I was that person at Wine Library. That’s what was so hard
for me at VaynerMedia. I did everything. I didn’t know there was,
and then there’s also strategists, like probably
the most impactful thing I do and I think the
thing that Andy has developed into is, there’s a strategy too. Like what are you doing? And then there’s macro strategy of like should you guys work there. It gets really, like. Or you could see where I’m going. I’m already like, cool I know
what you’re about to ask, but also like strategy is like dude you need to create a product
line named after your grandfather or daughter
and fucking put real 20% energy always because
what if Adidas sells to fucking Supreme in six years and they cancel your contract. – [Man] Yeah, that’s why we
have stock in it actually. (muffled) CEO last year, 18 months ago a lot of uncertainty,
first reaction (muffled). – Always, by the way, I hate when uncertainty is the driver to that. It always makes sense, but
in my keynotes I always say raise your hand if
you’re having your best year. People raise their hand, I’m like, you’re the ones I’m most worried about. Notice how uncertainty
got you to, oh shit, we should have a hedge, I’m most worry about everybody here who’s doing the best because they’re not thinking about hedge because it’s working. That sales machine is feeding me. That company signed a
six year deal, bless you. Six years is like fucking six minutes. – Yeah, you’re right.
– I’m aware, like I see it every day. You know, what I’m good at
is (muffled) recognition of business over the last
25 years, mine and others. I’ve done, bless you, small
business, family business. I was in Silicon Valley. I did Madison Avenue for a reason. I knew nothing about corporations. I couldn’t speak smartly seven years ago about Nike and Adidas, now
I can tell you everything. Now, I’m dangerous. Now I’ve got the blueprint across all entrepreneur, SMB, Silicon
Valley tech and Fortune 500s. Now I understand everybody’s
strengths and weaknesses. Now I can start my career at 50. That’s the plan, so when
I talk about patience, I’m like, think about what I just said. And all the while, the
most important thing that I want people to learn
from me, I didn’t make money. Built a business for my dad, had no money. VaynerMedia, my brother, Steve Ross, not making any margin, not making money. Not making money up to 50. I am, people are like cool, how do you have a Hamptons house,
how do you have like? Yes, I’m making money, but I’m leaving 90% of the economics on the table. And so cool, I’m talented,
so I add bigger numbers. But it’s still the thesis. So, if you’re not as talented as me and you’re making 50k,
when you’re worth 400k, but if you follow my model you’re
going to make four million. Now, you can get hit by
a tree, you could die. I understand, you can get
divorced and lose half. And like change your, there’s
nothing that’s foolproof, but there are, I always use fitness because it’s easier for people to grasp. If you eat right and exercise,
yeah you could get cancer. You could, you might have a body, I don’t have a body type
for a chest, DO does. There’s certain things
that are going to happen. I’m putting in the work, but I’m not going to have a nice good chest. DO does like one push up and has a chest. (laughs) He’s putting in real work,
but there’s body types, we all know it, right. Like some people starve themselves and still are chunky and big boned, but, but, but the reality is there is somethings that are
black and white, right. Learning, contexting, understanding. My biggest concern in this macro room is the economy’s been good.
– Yeah, me too. – The economy’s been good for a decade. Globally, you know, every
market is a little different. In the UK it’s a little different in London and in the US, but like, in the macro the whole world
has become full of shit and doesn’t want to pay the piper. And that’s going to,
like we should absolutely on merit have a global depression because the whole world is full of shit. – Yeah.
– And that could happen. Like I think a whole lot about, the biggest thing that
keeps me safe is I’m willing to love in this room with
my family and that’s cool. That’s why I’m pushing
everybody not to be fancy because I know they’re about
to have to not be fancy. They’re not going to worry
about fucking Yeezy’s and Supreme’s and gold
watches, they’re going to be worried about fucking
putting food on their table. That gets real, that’s a —
– A spectrum. – That’s a spectrum boy. Like go read the Roaring
20s, go look at how everybody lived in the 20s, you’ll
get real scared, real fast. You’ll get real scared, real fast. Because you know how the
30s and 40 played out. We’re headed, so I think
about a lot of that shit. – [Man] That’s keeping me
up at night a little bit about next year where
we’re marching onto Brexit, whatever your views on
it are, there is a lot of uncertainty.
– Yep. – I’m in the service business.
– Yep. – That’s why I’m trying to
pivot very quickly into a products business, but even
that’s going to be impacted. – Let me tell you why I’m so heavy to push everybody here on
building a personal brand. It is the best asset to
have during a shitty time because you’ll be able to get a job. Like, what will work
for you by building HR personal brand, is God forbid
when it all hits the fan, IBM still may hire you
for 50 cents on the dollar of their last HR Executive, but you’ll be at the top of the list.
– Yeah. – If you really play a
depression, immigrant, doomsday model, like I do. I’m like old school
fucking Eastern European. I have cash buried in the backyard shit. (laughs) I do, my financial
advisors get so mad at me. They’re like you’re so
right about so much, you could be making so much more money if you didn’t take that … Why don’t you take that cash. You’re publicly saying
to invest in Netflix and Amazon, you’re sitting
on cash with no interest. If you would have put that
into Amazon and Netflix, you’d have twice as much money. I’m like, yeah but guess what,
I slept really good at night. Because if the whole
fucking world collapsed I’d know I have a million bucks in cash, which could be worth $38, but it’s still going to be better than
zero or negative zero which everybody else is going to go to because everyone’s over-leveraged. – [Man] Yeah. – That’s the vulnerability
of a young kid that hit the right timing.
– Yeah. – Like you’re not going
to find any investor. You’re not going to be, the
property that you invested in that was prime goes to very low. God forbid you have any loans. Like, people don’t get it. I do not want to talk about that shit. – [Man] (muffled) – Yeah, and then the other thing is. That’s why money’s one
thing because if all the money’s worthless, there’s that. It’s mindset, it’s like
really getting to a place where you’re okay in
living a peasant life. I mean it.
– (muffled) yesterday when he told me you have investor. We built the business, we have
no loan, me and my father. – That’s huge.
– 1994 we started, we are (muffled) since day one.
– That’s huge, huge. And the biggest thing that happens in CPGs in today’s world, the biggest
reason I left VC Silicon Valley and pushed against it, is everybody thinks that’s the right thing to do. It’s not that they, they don’t even, it’s not that they, they
don’t even know any different. There is no under 35 year old in the world that thinks that going to a
bank for a loan is the move. Everybody over 50 thought
that was the move. – [Man] Everyone’s obsessed aren’t they with raising money.
– It’s slavery. – Yeah, because they don’t
realize what’s happening. Like, Gavin will tell
you, I was in nourish. Like you get kicked out
of your own company. People don’t understand
what actually happens. – What should you do on the–
– And I apologize real quick. And also what happens is your building a company in a fake environment. You’re losing money every month, but you think you’re building something. Then something bad happens,
you have to raise more capital and it changes the cap table
to you getting paid last. And then you’re company
sells and you made no money. People are not smart, I
don’t know what else to say. So, like I have a communication style that penetrates, so I’m
trying to use it for good. Like to help people because
you think I’m popular now, wait to shit hits the fan. I’m going to be the most popular. Because the 10% that are
alive are going to be alive because they listened to me and did something completely different and the 90% wish they’d listened to me. – [Man] Charging 100,000 for 4D. – Or six dollars just to like. You know, yeah, or just to. That’s how much the market
is in a melted down world. But guess what, six dollars
acts like a million because everything comes down together. And I think it’s 12 dollars, not six. You know, my great
moment in my career will be the next economic downturn. – Oh sorry.
– Yeah, please. – I was just going to
ask, why are you smoozing with the agency model
when the model is like such lower margines.
– Because I’m not building an agency. Because I’m building this for internal IP and then I’m going to
convert it inside out. So, here’s what’s going to happen. When the world melts,
ATT and BMW and Avion and Tesko are all going
to hire VaynerMedia because what’s going to
happen is their marketing budget is going to go
from 100 million to 12 and they’re going to need
that 12 to work really hard. And we’re established as
knowing how to do that and the only reason people
don’t go with us now is because money is easy
and they don’t have to do the right work, so they can
give the money to their buddy or the person that takes them to fucking, the Manchester United game on the field. Got it. When they can’t do that anymore they’re going to give it all to us. I’m going to get all that, so this machine that is stupid now, gets really smart because we’ll go from 280 to
590 in revenue in 24 months. It’ll be profitable
revenue because the world will melt and I’ll be able
to hire all the people from other agencies for
25 cents on the dollar. At the same time, a bunch
of companies are going to be over-leveraged and they’re
going to go out of business and I’m going to be able
to buy those businesses with the cashflow of the
590 at higher revenue. Then the economy will
turn back in 12 years and I’ll be able to sell those businesses at the frothy end and buy the Jets. (laughs) – [Woman] What’s happening after the Jets? – Super Bowls.
– I see. – You see what I’m doing? I’m playing the reverse game. So everybody thinks
it’s stupid now because they don’t understand it’s over valued, then it’s going to seem very smart. Then I’m able to show this video and be like it wasn’t an accident. Which will only compound the smarts of it. And I’ll be 62 and have 40 years to play all on the equity of like
pulling off a billion dollar thing on smarts, not luck. On humility of eating shit
for a decade in my prime. Right, kids are going
to watch these videos and be like, he was fucking 39, he was 42. Like, I’m 26, and he was patient. That’s why it worked. I’m going to do that. Nobody’s ever seen anybody play it. We didn’t get to watch Steve
Jobs’ first nine years. Not that I’m that or this and that, it’s just like we didn’t get
to see Bezos’ packing books. You know how powerful
it would be right now. How many views do you think.
– 89. – How many views do you
think if Jeff Bezos was doing a blog, those first 50
episodes of them packing books in a fucking garage would have. 80 million, maybe 14 billion, right. Everybody would watch it. I mean everybody.
– Yeah. – Yeah, so how’d you like
to watch Michael Jordan’s first three off seasons
and the work he put in. So, there’s a lot of thought
that goes into what I do that I don’t speak
about or I show glimpses of in things like this. My team talks a lot about
like me not talking about being smart, as you guys
know, none of my content is predicated on being smart. That’s just going to speak for itself when it’s all said and done. I don’t need people that think I’m smart. – [Man] Can we talk to you about
that family that you talked about obviously coming
to you (muffled) and now give us a roadmap we’ve
been looking at (muffled). – Yep.
– Debt to capacity. Someone actually approached
us to value the company. We said we’re not ready.
– Yep. – And they said, how
about we value at a small percentage, could we get a cash injection. We have zero debt and
cash through January, but if we bring them in we’d say. – Yep.
– I can scale, like hyper scale this year and (muffled). – Yeah, I mean, look
I think it all depends on the terms of the deal.
– Okay, yeah. – Like haven’t, VaynerMedia,
you know Steve Ross owns fucking 40% of my company. It’s just I’ve never
had a meeting with him about the company.
– Yeah, I’m with you. – So, like if you take a
million quib and you never have to answer to anybody, like to me, the biggest reason not to take an investor is prepping for a meeting every quarter. Allen will tell you that I
don’t even want to talk to him. He’s my own CFO, so I want to navigate. And not answer to anybody. If you have to answer to
them why you did anything, that becomes an energy suck
and was it worth the quib. – Okay.
– Because all you’re then talking about is
generating your own cash. And just being slower, which nobody wants. Because they always
things it’s a land grab. I never think it’s a land grab. I think that when you’re
good, abundance is always the answer.
– Yeah. – Everybody always justifies to me like, no, no Gary, you don’t get it. This moment in my business right now. I’m like, yeah cool. I’m like it’s never a moment, dick. There’s always a moment,
there’s always an angle. Retail is changing, cool,
retail will change tomorrow. There’s always a fucking moment. You know. – [Woman] We’re getting some (muffled) companies approaching
us about our agency side about doing creative capital projects where we work with them and then we get essentially an investor
because we’ve created the strategy and there’s no
financial exchange there, just like creative capital. So, we’re essentially could be. – When you say “we”, the
company or you two individually? – The company, our agency.
– I think that’s trading the special sauce for a percentage of the upside that you don’t even control after you’re gone, don’t love it. – [Woman] Yeah, it doesn’t
seem super compelling. – Let me keep going with questions. What do you have?
– Yeah, I have a question. We have one of our three
countries right now (muffled) of distributors.
– I see, understood. (beeping) Go ahead. – (muffled) reached his limit and US for us has always been a problem we have always failed in
the US from distributors. I guess I need to cancel distribution in the US and re-engage
with our own distribution channels and our own distributor so we are (muffled) distributing. – Interesting.
– And only focusing on one sport
– Which one? – Boxing, because it’s
on the up for retail. – Yep.
– And we can control it if we go into all. – Understood.
– Too many expenditures. – And what are you guys
doing direct to consumer in the US?
– I mean, we’re going to open our on Spotify and focus on Amazon. – That’s exactly right. – Right now we are rebuilding the brand. So I’m spending plenty of money. – Rebuilding Adidas boxing?
– Yeah, basically. So, we are sponsoring athletes, sponsoring Charity Evans, trying to engage with the community. Question is, where should
I put most of my — – Facebook and Instagram and Youtube and pod casts and long tail influencers. So, there’s a trend
obviously in the US right now in boxing around things like Rumble, like pretty girls boxing. Like you getting, you giving
$3,000 to a pretty girl with 900,000 followers on Instagram versus you giving it to
Anthony Joshua or Wylner or fucking, you can’t
even imagine the delta. There’s no up and coming,
even Oscar De La Hoya in his most up and coming moment, there’s no boxer that
even remotely comes close to the arbitrage of building brand that you’ll get from four
attractive people on Instagram. – (muffled) – Right, you’re just building brand. You just want attention. – So influencers?
– Influencers at scale and original content at scale created and distributed on Facebook. What VanyerMedia does.
– The problem we have that we haven’t discussed
is that we’re every (muffled) by Adidas on our
Facebook and Instagram. We aren’t corporate and
sometimes being corporate and (muffled) you lack authenticity. – Yep. (laughs) – [Man] The difference is though, you played in the sandbox
that you play in because you think it’s what Adidas wants. If you blew it up and
did something destructive that looked completely
different and then started a precident new, you would
reinvigorate the relationship. Right now we’re trying
to create things that you think we’ll say yes to, but in reality you haven’t approached it
through a creative lens that doesn’t look like
how you’ve approached it – Or, you put in all that
effort to counter your point, which is right, or you
put in all that effort and they say no because Karen
at corporate is like no. Hence, why it’s not
fun to be at that mercy of somebody else.
– True. – That’s it because you’re right, but you’re both right. I don’t know and Karen
might say it’s awesome. But she might not, but
that is what you should do. And I think ultimately,
that’s what’ so great about entrepreneurship versus corporate. The reason a lot of small companies do win is they do what you should do. And big companies do what
you’re supposed to do. – (muffled) – 100%, 100%.
– We’re fighting like we’re on a speedboat and —
– But one more time. You are Adidas Boxing in America. – Yeah.
– For all intents and purposes.
– Yeah. – So I think, you have an upfront meeting with a plan that is really compelling. Like you have an upfront meeting. Of like, we need a meeting
and specifically about social media content in the
US around Adidas Boxing. We want far more creative control and let’s just have a
meeting to be aligned on what’s yes and no because we’re, this is you now, we’re playing
the zeitgeist of old rules but we may not even know,
but we know we want to go somewhere different, so
let’s have that meeting. Like who’s approving the content. – (muffled) HQ.
– Has to approve the content you post on Facebook.
– On Instagram, not Facebook. They don’t give a shit
about Facebook anymore. – Good, then you should
take advantage of it because that’s the best
thing that’s going on because Facebook ads for
business have never been better. And the fact that people are
walking away from it is great. Organic may not be better than ever, but ads are fucking amazing. – And the layoff complexity
that we have to report (muffled).
– I know man. I mean, VaynerMedia doesn’t
do anything I believe in. I’m being dead serious,
clients have too much control. That’s the game.
– That’s the game. – But that is what you should do. – Patience and —
– No, Facebook and Instagram and Youtube. Content unlimited, contextual to the paid media distribution against it. Content unlimited to the
paid distribution against it. That is the fucking statement. And nobody’s doing it and I’m as a human probably doing it the
most out of any human and I’m not even, not even remotely close to what I should be doing. I should be running, Andy,
how many pieces of content do you think, if you’ve
been listening for the last three minutes, in this context, how many pieces of content
should I be running as Instagram ads, swipe up
right now, do you think? How many singular
different pieces of content and then media plans against it? – It’s infinity.
– That is exactly right. Actually infinity. We’re running how many
Instagram ads right now? Swipe ups, right now? Zero, one, yeah right this second. – Three.
– Three, we should be running 987,000. No, no this is like real talk.
– There’s three pieces of content that we’re driving to, which is why I said three, but in those three pieces of content,
there’s 50 different ways you can splice it. There’s that keynote tab available. Him saying, hey college
athletes watch this. Or, hey students of this
college, watch this. – But literally, I should
be in studio right now like LSU fans, watch this. Auburn fans, watch this. University of Michigan, watch it. Literally, that’s where
this is going to go. Which is why machine
learning and AI and all these other things in content
will play out over time. Because the level of scale. The problem with those
things is you’re going to lose some authenticity.
– Yeah. – But maybe not, because for
example if it’s voiceover. If I have voiceover
technology that can basically make me say anything because
we have so much record … Like there’s a lot of reasons I do the things that I do that I never talk about. Why am I in perpetuity being filmed? I believe we have an audio database now that can manipulat me saying anything. So, now you can imagine
I can have an intern make 478,000 college
logos where you can hear my voice say, hey UNLV
Running Rebels fans, you should watch this video. Though I’ve never said it, but
you can see where I’m going. It’s very powerful. – (muffled) like ad fatigue
how often are you guys? – Well ad fatigue doesn’t
happen in the way that I just played it out
because I’m so contextual. With that, you’re only seeing it once. That’s what he runs in to. He has ad fatigue because
he only has one to seven, to 19 to 33 units. People are getting hit
with the same stuff. It’s fatigue, but if it was
contextual in the first place like, hey Gennady, you
were born in Belarus we want you to play this
game from the Ukraine. I’m like, oh shit, okay. It was so contextual.
– Yeah. – Not play the cat neo geo game, you know. You don’t get fatigue when
you’re contextual at scale. God forbid you actually get it mapped, then you hit me with the seven
things I give a fuck about, all contextual, now you
can’t not not get me. – [Woman] If you were
to just do one platform, like you had to choose
one that you could do, would it be Instagram. – Um, I think it depends on the business. For you, I would probably, I wouldn’t. Uh, it’s tough, I mean I’m
very bullish on Facebook because of it’s pure scale. Instagram’s there too. Depends on, I’m always thinking brand, so you know, it’s like moments in time. – [Woman] Yeah, we’re super focused on Youtube and Instagram.
– That makes sense. – [Woman] We’re kind
of neglecting Facebook. – Huge mistake because if you run ads against your content, you’ll
destroy it on Facebook. Alright, let’s keep it going. – [Man] Gary, quick
question, quite specific. We’ve got, of course, (muffled) our video. Of course, six module,
takes you from a live (muffled) to an action plan. We designed it for individual. As an HR Director, as I was designing, I realized I have (muffled) value as well and for HR Directors, CEOs.
– Yep, makes sense. – Big layoffs.
– Yep. – We just signed (muffled) use it as part of their (muffled).
– Love it. – [Man] So my challenge is, I still want to sell to individuals. – Yeah, you’re B2B and B2C. No different then him,
two separate audiences, two different executions.
– Yeah. So, in terms of B2B
enterprise using LinkedIn as the platform.
– And Facebook because you can now
target based on employees, so imagine running an ad. So you make a piece of
content, video or picture. Now the copy says, dear
financial service employees, make sure your Chief
People Officer sees this. And you run it against the
seven biggest financial employees of the seven biggest
financial firms in the UK. And so now I’m a finance
manager at Barclay’s, but I see it on my Facebook
feed and I’m friends with the head of HR and I
literally just forward the link. That’s why it works,
but notice what I did. Creative that is contextual
to the distribution. I know that I’m going after
employees of financial services. Not just the HR individuals, thus my copy said, hey employee make sure your HR. Do you see where I’m going? This is why copy is the
great underestimated part of the current state of creative. We’ve become so visual,
we grossly underestimate the copy.
– I’ve been doing that. – You and everybody else. That’s, if you notice, it’s so subtle. Why some of the content
worked, because I could figure out the copy to make
it work for my audience even though the visual didn’t
support it as much as I wanted. That’s why when I post when I’m not tired, when I’m fresh, it always does better because I’m unbelievably
thoughtful of what I’ve just watched, the current feeling that I have to my audience, the copy. That’s why my copy has
gotten progressively longer on Instagram, if you’ve
followed me for a long time. All the sudden, I made that
switch a year and a half ago. You know, but I keep breaking it up. I just did something
the other day with just one word and it worked. So I’m just really trying to, you know. – [Man] But we’re copy run it into audio as well.
– Well, audio is only copy. – Yeah, (muffled) what Nick said yesterday because I was listening
to your podcast last, but that’s copy that’s taken from us, not from them brought into that. Well, you wouldn’t know it.
– That’s right, which is why it ended up working, right. That’s right and it would
be way better if I had time because I would record something original. My podcast would explode if I had time and maybe I’m trying to
convince myself right now to do it, but if I would record literally just a minute or two to
set up what you’re about to listen to because I could
use the moment in time. You know, on Monday I
can use the zeitgeist. I can say something like, you know, I’m trying to think about
the world right now. Like, the Jets are one
in three, and I’m pissed. Talk about being pissed,
that’s going to matter to the audience because it feels fresh. – [Man] Yeah, right (muffled). – [Man] (muffled) – [Man] Antwan, did you
have anything specific? – Yes, so the biggest
struggle right now for me is user position and (muffled) the engaged users who.
– Especially off of the one that you’ve just had because we’ve lived through the a
golden year of opportunity and some of it’s getting corrected. – Yes, right now.
– And we’re all playing one big game of Cack and El TV, he’s just playing it literal. Cost of acquisition, lifetime value. It’s true math. Which is why he can get to 100 because when it really works,
you can’t spend enough. – Yes.
– You spend it all. It all pays back.
– If you know the (muffled). – And what you’ll love and
this will make sense to you and this is probably where
maybe I can take you to a place. That’s basically what I’m doing as a brand in perpetuity because I
have no short term metric. – I have actually two questions. One is, influencers
– Yes. – We just started working with them. – Yes.
– Especially for pocket product, which is pretty
small in comparison with all the others. What’s the best strategy for our business to work with influencers. – Your best strategy
on influencers is just brand long tail arbitrage. They won’t convert, like even if they’re. Well, you’ll find people like. Like if I did an ad right now, hey Vayner Nation, like
straight up being authentic. Let me play it out exactly. Hey Vayner Nation, being
authentic, you know I never pitch anything,
but the fact of the matter is I love this wine app. They’re my homies,
known them for 13 years. They’re paying me $200,000 for this. I want to be authentic with all of you. But, you fucking know me,
like I’ve never done this. I’m doing this because this is the best wine app I’ve ever seen. Link is in my profile,
you should download it. It would convert, what I
just did would convert. Still not that great. Definitely not to what
you would care about and I’m extremely rare,
thus you can imagine why I’m worried about
influencers for people that are deep, deep quant
based around gaming. I like it better for fashion/retail. I like it better for
consumer packaged goods. I don’t love it as much for gaming because the natural
influencer isn’t there. You know, the fashion blogger gal. There’s a billion of her. The food people there’s a billion of them. The I’m a casual gamer
influencer, doesn’t exist. You’re not going to get
e-sports people to convert. So you’ve got a, do you see where I’m going?
– Yes. – Sure, there’s people you can do. Sure, some of them will
work for math for you. None of them will work the second time. None of them, none of them. They don’t have a second post in them. I think you need to look at
Instagram story swipe up ads. Have you guys looked there?
– Yes, yes (muffled). – I think what you need to
do is optimize creative. – That’s what I’m.
– Yeah, I saw you. That’s your.
– Contextual. – Contextual at scale.
– Yes, yes. – At scale.
– Yes, I’m building brand. – And building brand. I think the two things that if I was, and I think you already picked up on it. I think you’re here and I want you here. – Yes.
– I want you to spend more money on brand, which will always work. And I want you to go way more long tail contextual, creative and paid. This worked, but it’s starting not to. Which is why this matters.
– Yes, that’s fair. – That’s it.
– And our market is pretty funny, I would say. (laughs) – Funny is always an
interesting adjective. – So we’re doing social because you know, there is no real money involved the people are spending
real money, but the are buying tokens.
– That’s right. – And spending tokens in the game. – That’s right.
– The market is growing. Why it’s growing, because
people stop flying to Vegas, they stop playing in the real casino, they stop paying thousands of dollars and start paying hundreds of dollars for the same emotions, the same dopamine. The only struggle is where
to find these people. We tried the influencer who are filming themselves in the casino
and I won, I had the big win and stuff, but it doesn’t convert. – Similar to what I was telling him which is you’re going, too
many people go too literal when all you’re trying to do
is buy under-priced attention. – Yeah.
– Right. – So for example, I think
you would do so much better with, you know, and
this is for your business and this is for your business. The person I’m most obsessed with is the alpha woman in the suburb. I’m obsessed with this woman. I really got to, I’m going to name her. Maybe Sally, you know. (laughs) – [Woman] Sandra, Sandra. – I just am obsessed
with the following woman. Specifically because it’s
more, this is very general. High net worth suburb of a big town, she’s the alpha of her 39 friends. Because there’s a million of her and she’s so influential
and if you can get 39 of them in a concentrated area, you can get the whole damn thing. Got it.
– So 55 plus, this is our. – Whether it’s 28 or 55 or 72, there is a 42 year old woman
who is the alpha of her neighborhood which means 19
other women look up to her. She says, they say, they’re
also influential, boom. And it will work for a lot of people. There’s a term in American politics. It’s called soccer moms. It was during, I don’t
know if it was Clinton or Bush or Gore, but it was like, it was categorizing the
swing of this election is soccer moms, which is
really in a lot of ways what I’m referring to now. The influential suburban woman. How she voted and how
she impacted the vote. I think that person right now
is extremely relevant to me. Here’s why I love it, all
of them are on Instagram. Here’s why I like it more. They all have between 700 and 7,000 fans, which means nobody’s paying attention. It’s not fun because it’s long tail. It’s a lot of hand-to-hand combat, but what you end up realizing
is you hire three people to do the hand-to-hand
combat at $45,000 a year. Hand-to-hand combat, DM, DM, DM, DM, but when you amortize out
the cost of $150,000 salary. It’s what I’m doing right now. I have three full-time
employees right now, Dming with me cc’d on it
to every single person that follows me, that
either has 100,000 followers on Instagram or is verified,
which right now is, how many people do we have left, Andy? 6,000 or 12,000? – [Andy] 12 is the total and we– – Right, so right now in my, right now I’m being cc’d with influencers where they’re being sent to
fill out a form to create a first party CRM for me to
be able to activate them. God, I mean, God forbid whatever I choose to activate them on, it’s
going to be really good. It’s going to be really good. The best part for me is I
have leverage with them. Unlike you going or you going cold, these are people that follow me that I’ve probably brought value to, so whatever I ask is going to convert at least the first one. You know, I have to find my
cadence of not asking too much, but it’s going to work building that out. Scaling the un-scalable
is always the answer once you hit–
– Yes. – attrition. And it’s super counter-cultural to people that are quant oriented. I’ll get to you.
– When you talk about personal branding are you
talking about the company brand or my own personal brand?
– You the human. – Okay.
– Because you the human then has inperpetuity to leverage
and then all of the sudden the platforms are courting
you, not you the platforms. – Gary if you’ve got three–
– I do. – Did all have to have a platform to take or is it–
– Well, I would say that you need to both go, you
both have to do the same move, which is you need
to go to your partner and be like, look I went to go see Gary V. I believe his is right for our business. I would love for you to do it as well. I don’t want to do this
and you think I’m trying to do something for me and not you. And, I’d love for you to do it. And you may or may not want to do it. But I’m doing it because
I think it’s leverage. It’s leverage for our
business, but it’s leverage for me in case of, who knows what. You should do it too. They’ll be like, well you’re fucking extroverted, I’m introverted,
this is bullshit. Or they’ll be like, cool you do it. Yeah, I’ll do it too. There’s a million things that will happen. – In my case, I’ve actually got a personal (muffled).
– Yep. – Should I need to
build up to this reason. On the personal side,
I’m like a recovering addict and I’ve got a–
– That’s amazing. – You know, because of stuff like that. – I would put it all in one place. – Okay.
– And nobody wants to, but it’s where all the action is. – (muffled)
– Brother, I have good news for you. Anybody who doesn’t do business with you because you were a former addict, also has somebody who’s
going to do business with you because you’re a former addict. (talking over each other) It’s a net score, of course, I get it. And everybody’s got their version of it. Everybody.
– Yeah, yeah. – The only reason not to build a personal brand right now for real,
is if you’re doing something terrible in the shadows of society. (laughs) No really, no I’m serious. If you’re cheating on your husband, if you’ve raped somebody,
if you stole money. The only reason to not
build a personal brand today is if you’re currently
doing something bad. Because as you get awareness,
you’ll get exposed. – [Man] What about that
mental state though because I was doing my
master’s and I (muffled). So, I port my fans and video clips easier, put it on Youtube, it’s
easier than writing for me. So I did that and some of
the feedback I was getting was, oh it cut me deep. (laughs) It cut me deep, and now I
said then, I don’t think I’m going to do this again. Is that just ego or–
– Yep, insecurity. – Yeah, but.
– It’s value. It’s valuing other
people’s opinions more than your mission.
– Yeah, but see in real life, in real
life if someone said that to me, I’d be like–
– It’s not true. – Yeah.
– Because that it is real. – It’s not true, it is real life. – [Man] See, on a one-to-one
basis if someones said that to me I could discuss with them and I’d feel comfortable because
I could discuss with them. – I understand, I understand. – Why it is and what’s–
– You can discuss with them too. If you go look at my
first book, Crushing It. There’s a ton of negative reviews and then you’ll read me
replying to that person. – Nice.
– You’re more than welcome to reply, you can discuss with them. It’s real life. You could reply to their reply and everybody gets to see
it, which shows humility, confidence, empathy. It’s a powerful trait. I love feeding my trolls. I think you should feed the trolls. People tell you to ignore them. I don’t, because if you ignore them then you can become delusional and get high on your own supply. I love the negative feedback
because it keeps me, not in check, because most of negative feedback is an exposure
of their insecurity. If somebody takes the time in their life to consume your content and
then leave negative feedback, they’re in a really bad place. I have nor the time to
consume anybody else’s content or the interest in
making somebody feel bad. That’s the punchline. So, I think it’s, I would
tell you it’s a strength. – [Man] Yeah, okay. – First of all, it’s a truth. Second of all, it’s
nothing to be ashamed of. Third of all, it’s inspirational. Fourth of all, there’s
other former addicts who are decision makers who are going to support you in a tie.
– I think a lot of it came from in the past I’ve
kind of made (muffled) on Instagram and then
another one on LinkedIn. And all that shit where
now I need to centralize the whole brand.
– Everybody’s been trying to be full of shit, like,
it’s just not going to work. – Okay.
– There’s nowhere to hide. – [Man] So that in terms of
like actual business things. So, how much would you, is there a number you’d say people should spend in terms of percentage of revenue
on brand and (muffled). – Mm-hmm.
– What do you think that looks like?
– As much as they can afford. – Just as much as you can.
Mm-hmm. – Literally, I mean it. As much you can afford on brand. It is the, it’s the most ownable thing. – [Man] Do you think there’s
going to be a play where, like I talked about earlier,
like we’re having today people do conferences, events,
webinars and stuff like that. Whereas I think now because
of the younger generation coming through and just
seeing management positions there’s going to potentially
be this play around maybe Instagram or something like that, or even maybe the video
content on LinkedIn. But something different
like people at MySpace, come scroll on Linked
in and see a funny video or a cool video about our product doing. – Yes you do, yes you do. Nobody’s doing it and every
time somebody does it, it works. – Exactly and that’s kind of where– – People are humans.
– Yeah. – People are people. Just because they’re on LinkedIn, like it’s because
they’re not being fed it. Guys, I’m one of the
fastest growing accounts on LinkedIn in the world. I’m cursing my ass off. Go to my comments on LinkedIn. Half of them are people
mad at me for cursing. – I struggle with that
because I swear a lot life anyway, but then
I don’t put on a video on LinkedIn with that because
it’s a professional platform and it’s kind of like a
getaway to like tie that line across–
– Well, listen, listen. By the way, I just said that, meanwhile I just told D Rock and Andy, go literally, literally this is so crazy, so meta. Guys, I want somebody
on the team to go look at the 50 best performing
videos of my career and I want you to beep out the curse words so we can distribute those,
because you’ve go to respect the context of the
platform, but I’m scared. Literally, I’m going to do both. Literally, I’m going to post on LinkedIn the fuck you and fuck that and fuck this and then the same thing like a week later of like beep, beep, beep. (laughs) Because they both work. You know how many people
don’t work with VaynerMedia because I’m Gary V, a ton. Do you know how many people do, a ton. Gotta let the chips fall. In your uniqueness, it is your strength. – Yeah I agree.
– The more you vanilla down, the more you’re
like, oh you’re that guy. Oh, suit and tie and
good school and you’re a professional and like, okay cool. You know, people are running
away form their leverage because we’re trying to
be like everybody else. – (muffled) So, the type
of business we’re in we (overtalk) we manage, like that thing like right now we’re closing
up this year on double luxury for example and
then the next year we go to double again, we could be half. Do I just sink all the
money in and throw the chips on the, or roll the dice I guess. – I think it comes down
to spending less money on dumb shit and dumb shit a lot of times in the early days is your own salary. – Okay. (laughs) Yeah, I know sometimes
you’ve got to take a cut. – The biggest mistake,
the mist, the biggest mistake, the biggest mistake
small businesses make if you’re company is doing
less than 10 million dollars a year and you’re the sole proprietor, the biggest mistake is
extracting the money out and buying dumb shit.
– Yeah. So we stopped, like I knew when I actually thought we were
going to take all the money out. We’re going to have
loads of fucking stuff. – Right.
– Not really because I got CFO in to stop me and he straight away, this
can’t be a lifestyle business. All this money needs to go
back in to grow some stuff. So I think we’ve, I’ve toned back mentally where I’m not going to
have everything today. This will be in like
five or 10 or 50 years. So cool.
– Cool. – Thank you.
– Yes, so we touched on (muffled) Shopify versus Amazon. – You have to do both, aggressively. – So the reason we
decided Amazon in short. – I know why.
– Yeah, because we don’t have the budget.
– You have to do both. – To get people to our website
to let them know about it. – You still have to have it in your DNA. I don’t care if anybody,
I don’t care if nobody buys a single thing fromm you. I need you to have it in your DNA, because Amazon will put
you out of business. – Yeah.
– You will get sucked into Amazon and you will die. – So, I (muffled) on
Shopify and then what? – A huge focus in all three. Your own DTC, Amazon and retail. All three fronts you have to play. And you have to play them like this because I know you don’t
have unlimited resources. You have to play them like this. (scraping) You understand?
– Yeah, yeah, yeah. – Moments in time never ever. I didn’t say what most people do. (scraping) You understand?
– Yeah, yeah. – You have to or you
will lose, that’s right, but you saw how I did it, right. It wasn’t like, I also didn’t say. Right, the first example is the example. You know, the first
example is the example. Got it, and if you’re not committed to all those three, you will lose. I believe you will lose,
I believe you will lose. Because the other two
have too much leverage. – Then a company of our size.
– Yes. – How do we work through
VaynerMedia or Vayner X because obviously you’re working big– – I was just telling Nick this morning I’m trying to really think about starting a company under Vayner X built for SMBs. Because VaynerMedia’s not built for it. Beta is, Mentors is, like
we have versions of it, but they’re nuance is
part of a bigger machine. I think they need to be a
separate machine built for, so I’m spending a lot of time on it. But there’s another way, look. Listen, I think one
thing you’ll appreciate I don’t need anybody
here to work with Vayner. Like maybe we help you hire somebody Maybe Robbie Deeks who’s here and is really the ecom guy of our team, maybe he just gets a drink with you and Nick will set that up. So like we’re, you know.
– Yeah, yeah. Of course, we’d love to, but like I’d rather help you introduce somebody for 45k that can be your Shopify,
Amazon expert internally. Like, I’m not, you know, that’s not something I’m super worried about. But I’m unbelievably
worried about you not being deeply religious about retail,
Amazon and Shopify equally. Period.
– And then going back to where at a state where
we need to raise money. – Yes.
– So you raise money through two ways, either.
– Can I tell you how I think you should raise money? From high net individuals,
high net worth individuals who don’t want to say a lot. Everybody is going VC.
– How do you get them. – VC, in your network, your network. You just live life, you take a step back. First of all you have to
recognize that’s the right move. Strategy, now that I’ve said it now you go okay, how do I do that. Okay, I can join a country club. You could. Uh, my uncle’s rich, let
me ask him and his friends. Uh, my mate from University was employee number four at Instagram. Uh, got it. – [Man] And what’s your
views on raising money versus equity versus debt. – Um, I think it comes
down to the individual. I think the number one
thing in the current state, the new VC that took
away from being a bank is high net worth individuals who
don’t want to say anything. Let me give you the perfect person. Trust fund baby, Barry. Trust fund baby Barry, to
me is the number one person. He’s 29, his granddaddy did it all. He’s super insecure because
all he’s done is hook up with chicks in Abiza,
but he wants to make pretend that he’s done something. So where does trust fun baby Barry go? Investing. What does trust fund Barry
want to possibly invest in? Something cool, that is super up his alley because all the pretty girls
like that kind of stuff. And he gets to say that
he’s the investor of it. Trust fund baby Barry does
not want to go to meetings and look at Excel sheets. He just wants to be on a boat in Mykonos saying, I’m the investor
in that corn shit. (laughs) Trust fund baby Barry is
your number one target. – And then how–
– And a hundred thousand pounds to him is like what he spends on sneakers in a week. And he has no context for money. I’m a tough high net worth individual because I came from zero and
it all means a lot to me. Though I spend it like a trust fund baby, I get mad at you when you lose. He won’t even remember because the ROI was just being able to say
that he was the investor. – [Man] I suppose you put
yourself in an environment where you can meet these Barrys. – That’s correct, that’s right. And it could be through networking or it could be going to cool places. It just can, like I was, this
is where I love strategy. If you’re telling me you’re
an entrepreneur and you don’t have a lot of money
and I make fun of the Hamptons and Abiza and Mykonos, but if you told me I’m spending $4,000 to go to a music festival
in Abiza strictly to find six trust fund,
now I’m like (snaps) you’re smart, you know what I mean. So it’s all strategy. Entrepreneur that goes there to like, goes to the Hamptons to take
a fucking photo on a swan because it’s cool, I hate
that person because they literally did it just to be cool and they’re enjoying their lives while they’re losing money each
month on the back VC’s money. Going to Mykonos to get
four people to write you $250,000 check because
they’re insecure and they need to make pretend
they’re doing something with their lives, that’s
really interesting. – Did you need to raise
money for VaynerMedia. – I didn’t, my brother wanted money. I want to buy the Jets, Steve Ross owns the Dolphins offered me money
at a very high valuation that allowed me to extract money out, so my brother could get
some money and I didn’t. It was the worse business deal I ever did. – In hindsight you wouldn’t have done it? – Of course I would. It just not a good financial deal. But it was the deal
that I needed to do for checking two boxes, one getting
into the NFL family early and getting that fraternity to really accept me in 39 years
because I’d been around. Because just like Adidas, it’s so funny, I just know what the game is which is even if I make seven billion dollars, which I will because that’s on me. They may vote me out and I’m a character. I’m going to be very public to get there, so I need them to like me, not hate me. Mark Cuban doesn’t own
the Cubs for one reason, the other business baseball
owners didn’t want him in. Mark Cuban should own the Cubs right now. He made a bid, he had the money and they kept him out.
– The (muffled) guy. – Mm-hmm, so I made the
deal because I know what I’m doing with my life. Macro strategy, right, kill
two birds with one stone. So, my brother got
money, I got a valuation that was way higher than an agency or a VC would have given me,
so it felt a little better on a bad deal because I knew
exactly what was happening and what I was going to do. Ross is the best, he’s an
80 year old version of me. Best mench, super nice
guy, doesn’t give a fuck, pure entrepreneur, like
doesn’t want to talk about anything in detail, it’s
all macro, macro, macro. Everything’s fucking we’ll kill everybody, there’s nothing to talk
about, there’s not detail. – [Man] Does he like corn. (laughs) – [Man] We’ve got like two minutes here and I want to snag a group
photo before you have to run. – Okay.
– Can I get one. – Yeah, go head. – I just want to.
– What is my next thing? – Uh.
– Allen. – No, just the whole.
– The what? – Lunch, with the incomer.
– Oh shit, okay yeah. Yeah, sorry.
– Yeah, thank you. Firstly it’s been awesome,
so thanks so much. Every time I’ve ever done,
I’ve followed your advice, it’s always worked pretty well. In regards to personal
brand, I’m really excited. – By the way, on that note, because it’s important,
there’s a single reason why I’m winning, I’ve only
given advice I’ve lived through. It is the best way to go about it if you decide to build
your brand in any way. Don’t reach, don’t assume
or guess or borrow. I know nothing about
what anybody else says, I know nothing, like you’d be blown away by how much is … I’ve never consumed anything of anybody. Just always give advice you’ve lived. That’s why people get benefit from it. You’ve already seen it work. And then when you get good
and realize what you’re unique about, so you can hedge it, because I’m like oh I’m extroverted, so this wouldn’t work for an introvert. Or I’m high risk, this,
and then you get better at the way you give it
because you start nuancing it. Go ahead.
– So in regards to personal brand, I’m really quite
excited about the challenge I’m going do to it next month.
– Yes, yes. – I’ve got a lot of people
really excited about it. I have no idea how I’m
going to document it. I don’t know whether I’m
going to do it by vlog style or make it more of a professional
documentary with Nick. – Do both.
– Yeah. – Get Nick a Rick, have
two different films, with people and make both. Have him post produce a documentary and have Rick do the vlog. – Okay, and do it twice.
– Yeah. – Would you put it out
there along as I’m going or would you do it like all (muffled)? – I think you could do both man. – Yeah.
– I think what you’ll need to do for the documentary or
the thing that’s a longer production is find an angle
that isn’t being played out in day-to-day in vlog so
that it makes the core group want to watch that as well. It needs to be a behind the scenes maybe. Maybe, right.
– Yeah. – Maybe you’re Gary V on the vlog, but Gary Vaynerchuk in the documentary. Like the documentary of me, you even, I’ve given you a lot
of glimpse to it here. Like all of you are like oh shit. Right, the smartest of you in this room are like, what a minute. Like it’s way more serious
than I actually thought. – Yeah.
– Because I’ve given you like four or five
data points to show you. I’m like showing you a little like, – Yeah.
– Got it. – You might be able to do that. – Yeah.
– You might be able to star in the vlog and be the mastermind behind it in the doc.
– Yes, that’s awesome. – And what you can do in the doc then is also say, and
look, let’s not forget I did come with my knowledge. – Yeah, yeah, yeah.
– I started zero. I can start at zero and win every time too because I’ve got the IP. That’s the difference.
– Yeah, okay love that. – Without you acknowledging that, it undermines your entire premise. – Yeah.
– Like cool, you start at zero, you fucking have
ten years of experience. You know exactly what to look for. That’s why I can’t do it. I’m kitchen mom Susan
and I don’t know shit about ten years of experience. It could also be a launching pad for you to put off free content of
the nuances of the ten years. – Sure, okay.
– See where I’m going? – [Man] I love that, really,
really serious question. – Yeah, go ahead.
– If you don’t mind. – Yeah.
– For my videographer. Would you be able to give a
shout out to my followers? – Sure, no problem. We’ll do it right when
when we do the group photo. – Thank you so much.
– Cool, cool. (pounding drums) ♪ Who, who, who ♪ ♪ Who, who, who ♪

How to Increase the Value of Your Business


I’m going to talk to you about 10 things you
can do to increase the value of your business. But before I do that, let me kind of put things
in perspective so you kind of have an idea why this mindset of value, profit, conversations
you always hear about. So many people run a business and by the time
the year end comes with taxes, any profit that the company makes, they like to take
it out, pay taxes on it, and put it in their own checking account, right? Because it’s my profit, it’s my business,
it’s my this, it’s my that. And then there are those that say, man, this
is what I need to live off of, but let’s let it ride. Let it ride. Let’s grow it. Let’s let it ride. Let’s invest. Let’s let it ride. What is the difference between the two and
why does some do one over the other? Here’s the difference. Profit, value. Short term, long term. Working in the business to make money now,
working on the business to increase value later. Now, later. Instant gratification, delayed gratification. More like a sales mentality [profit], more
like a CEO mentality [value]. Independent contractor mentality [profit],
business owner mentality [value]. So this is something you see a lot in business. So you may be wondering yourself and say,
“Pat, I get it, but I want to increase the value of my business. What should I do to increase the value of
my business?” I got ten keys for you. #1, if the business is based on a technology
that you own that a person, a company may have interest in wanting to buy your company,
that that technology can be used in their entire spectrum of business that they’re doing,
that increases the value of the business, especially if you own the technology. If your business is ran on technology and
systems and CRMs and back office, all these things that make things go faster, where,
you know, you’ll typically need 200 employees to do this, but because you have the technology
you only need 45 employees to do this, people who want to buy a company like that and that
increases the value of the company. #2, focus. Your focus into what you’re doing, there was
once a book written I read I think it’s called Built to Sell, Built to Sell is a book, a
phenomenal book, I think every entrepreneur running a business ought to read the book
Built to Sell because what the book tells you is not to focus on selling your business. Focus on getting focused with your business. So what is the product? What do you do? Hey, I’m trying to do this. I’m trying to do this. We do this, we do this. So many different things that you do where
to increase the value of your business, why don’t you focus on one, two or three things
that you do, but increase your attention on those things. It increases the value of your business. I understand how sometimes it can be tempting
to say, but Pat, if we do more, the value goes higher. It does not. The more focused you are, the more you increase
the value of your business. #3, a business that’s ran on systems, not
just you, increases value. If I can come into your company and I walk
through, and I say, What did she just say on the phone call right now? Oh, she said this, this, this, this. Do you have it on a sheet of paper? Uh, no, we just taught her. What if a new person comes in. How do they learn? Oh, they just sit right next to her. Is that typed out? No. That’s systems. You don’t have it. You need to. . . okay, we’ll type it out. If I come in and you have a new employee,
what are the steps when a new employee comes in? Step number one, two, three, four, five, six. You don’t have that? You need that. It the person buys this product, what’s their
next step? What do you do next? What do you do follow up? We don’t have that. We don’t have that written out. These are systems and procedures. Businesses are built on systems. Grow more value because it’s got a life of
its own without the human being. Now obviously, you need a driver, but the
system takes your business value to a whole different level. #4, Strategic partners. What are we talking about with strategic partners? Look, strategic partners not only validate
the business, they increase the value of the business. They have good things to say about you, and
when it comes down to it, they can bring complete different aspects to your business that you
may not have yourself. So I think strategic partners play a very
big role in increasing the value of your business. #5 is recurring revenue. Ask yourself with the business you have right
now, what part of it recurring? What do you make every single month in your
business whether you make a single sale or not? Recurring revenue produces the highest multiples
that if somebody buys this book it’s got the highest multiples. Next, is supporting cast. Operations and supporting cast. Who is around you? Who’s running the company? This is the part where somebody who’s driven
on profits, they don’t invest in the people. So the value doesn’t increase. I remember many years ago I was running a
sales office, and there were these two guys who were my competitors. And I’ll never forget a call I had. It was within a week apart with each one of
them. And we were doing a cruise contest, something
like that I was running for a sales contest. And they both had bigger distribution lists
than I did. I had a smaller one. But by the time it was done, they only had
six people or four people they wanted to pay to go to cruise because it was going to cost
them $600 or $800 and they said, no, I’m not going to pay for them because of . . . I said, man, you’ve got to invest into your
people. So what I did is I went and paid into it for
43 people, them and their spouse. And we went on the cruise. Those guys had two. This guy had three. We had 43 people there. Okay, investing into the people. The level of loyalty we got from them who
were willing to come back and wanted to learn more, improve more, better the company more,
was a lot higher. That’s investing into a supporting cast that
wants to be in the company. So the more you invest into your supporting
cast to help them get better, they’re more indebted to you, they’re more loyal to you,
they’ll stay with you longer, and the value of the company goes higher the better supporting
cast you have. By the way, this also goes with your executive
team, who you bring onboard as an executive team, your sales force, every single thing
that is part of the supporting cast to growing the business. #7, data. Sometimes you see companies that buy another
company and they cut a big billion dollar check and you say, that company’s revenue
was only $50 million a year. Why did they cut a check like that? Because they have access to a lot of data
that they need. So if you have data, data increases value
of a business. What type of data are you gathering yourself
and how big is it, how wide is it, how deep is it that another person, another company
can say, this is valuable and it increases the value of your business. #8, EBITDA vs. need. Let me explain what EBITDA vs. need is. EBITDA stands for Earnings Before Income,
Taxation, Depreciation, and Amortization. That’s what EBITDA stands for, right? So a lot of times you’ll hear a company say,
well, why would we buy your company because your EBITDA is so low and you know, if we
do the multiples based on your EBITDA, yes, your top-line revenue was XYZ, but your EBITDA
is so small, you know, why would we do that? Because you’re solving for EBITDA. I’m not solving for EBITDA, I’m solving for
value. You’re solving for profit. If I solve for profit, I stay flat. Because I solve for value, I’ve grown quarter
after quarter after quarter after quarter as a business because I’m solving for value. So, the more you focus on a need, meaning,
going to your industry, whatever business you’re in, and find a need that exists that
no one’s focused on. For us, there’s a need that we have. Increase the need, where if somebody has an
interest in your business one day, it won’t be based on the EBITDA. It will be because this need will fill another
void that they have that the profits here will go up to the roof because they locked
in a need here. Two businesses, this one [need] increases
a side that’s about distribution this side increases the profits. This profit that they make here is well worth
them paying for the company, the value of the company because you’re solving for a need,
not just for EBITDA, although you still need to have profits, no company that goes out
of business, your company’s worth nothing. You do need to have a focus here [EBITDA],
but not to the point where it’s only short-term instead of long-term. Next, subscribership and distribution. What is that? That’s an audience, you know, when you see
a company like Instagram being bought, but they don’t know how to make money, why are
they buying them? It’s because they have an audience. There’s a distribution. So always focus on what you can do to increase
the distribution of your business, your company, the eyeballs. The amount of people that are seeing it. The subscribership, the customer base. It has something to do with recurring revenue,
but it doesn’t. There’s somebody that’s constantly coming
to you that’s logging on to your website. Like, you know, a Huffington Post has subscribership
that people are coming to it and email subscribership, anything that’s listening to something that
you’re offering that increases the value. And last but not least, stay hands on to increase
the value of your business. I think a lot of times people take their hands
off the business too early and they become CEOs too early instead of becoming you know,
somebody that’s a businessman that at the end of the day your job is to increase the
value of the company and if you do a good job increasing the value of the company, you’re
a CEO. You’re a great CEO. But don’t take your hands off too early. A stay hands on CEO or executive or entrepreneur
knows about what’s going on with technology. Knows about how focused the product is and
if we’re getting distracted. Knows about the system, is hands on with the
strategic partners because he makes the calls. Is hands on with the recurring revenue. Is hands on supporting cast, is hands on with
the data that’s being gathered, is hands on with the need and the EBITDA and is paying
attention. Is hands on in increasing distribution and
subscribership. Always stay hands on to increase the value
of your business. With that being said, Luis, throw me a pillow
right there because your buddies are not here today. Because we got a flight. I’ve got to get on a flight to New York and
Madrid here and I got a few meetings in New York before going to Madrid. Anyways, so, this is a topic that I went in
and tried to do in a few minutes because I have a conference call here myself to do. But if you’ve got questions about it, comment
on the bottom about how to increase your value of your business. This is a topic that is extremely important
for you to pay attention to. If you watched it once, watch it again, take
notes, print out what we have, re-read it, and find ways on what you’re doing yourself
for your business to increase the value of your business. And if you have not subscribed to our channel
yet, if you haven’t subscribed to Valuetainment yet, please do so. Click right here to subscribe. [breaking glass sound] You completely missed
it, Luis. Click right next to it to be part of the notification
squad, the alert, click on that as well. And with that being said, have a good one
everybody. Take care.

It Doesn’t Have to be Crazy at Work with Jason Fried


– Hey, everybody, what’s up? It’s Chase. Welcome to another episode of the show, that’s right, the Chase Jarvis Live Show here on Creative Live. I hope you know the show by now. This is where I sit
down with amazing humans and I do everything I can
to unpack their brains, with the goal of helping
you live your dreams and career and hobby and in life. My goal today is to introduce you to a super fine human, Jason Fried. You’ll know him as the
co-founder and CEO of Basecamp, which is an amazing piece of software that my photo studio has
used for a long time, for more than a decade. He’s also the bestselling author of, now I think, three books. Two I’ve read before, Remote and Rework. Rework really jogged my brain in a way that was super refreshing,
and I’m very excited to have him on the show today to talk about his new book, It Does Not Have to Be Crazy at Work. My guest is, again, Mr. Jason Fried. – Hey, how are ya? – What’s up? (rock music) (applause) – They love you. – Yes. I’ve had the good fortune of sitting down with your business partner, David Heinemeier Hansson. – He’s fun to sit down with isn’t he? – Yeah, he’s a good guy, he’s fiery, and we have a lot of mutual friends. I’ve been looking forward to this day for a long time. So welcome. – You, too. Thank you for having me here. – Yeah, congrats on the book. – Thank you. We’re proud of it. – I love it. I think I saw some early designs or David was talking about it as you guys were, and like
this is just brilliant. – We’re happy with how that turned out. The idea was like, we wanted
the cover to say it all. What’s the book about, just look at the cover and you’ll know. And that’s kind of the idea. And our names are on the cover, too. – I did notice that. – Hard thing to kind of get
done with the publishers because they don’t really, it’s an usual thing for them.
– Yeah. They’re uncomfortable with that idea. – Well speaking of
unusual and uncomfortable and not like what everybody else does, it seems to me, having
followed you for now, probably close to 15 years, that is part of your m o. You do things differently, you do it to the beat of your own drum. I say, to our audience here on the show, and professionally, personally even, you can’t stand out and fit in at the same time. So you might as well do your own thing. – Yeah. – How has that been a mantra for you because you’ve been doing it, like Rework was a
completely new thing for me. The idea of not crushing yourself at work is completely new, especially antithetical to our culture. – Is this a vein in your life? Are you a contrarian? – Probably, I guess technically. But I don’t really set out to be. I just kind of do what
I think makes sense. Maybe my version of what makes sense is different than what
other people’s version of what makes sense is. – Fair. – I also don’t pay attention to a lot of things. I think that’s another part of it. I think sometimes people
are paying attentions to too many things and they become so
informed by everything else that you just think that’s the only way to do things. So by being sort of, willfully ignorant, most of the time, you know, I can kind of, I guess,
skip the influences that I probably don’t want. I also stay away from, for example, in our industry, we’re
in the software business, everyone is here in Silicon Valley, for the most part, where in Chicago which helps is, just stay away from that world, I think if I was out
here it would be easier to be lured into it or sucked into it. And I kind of try to stay away. So I think I have a lot
of defense mechanisms that I’m not consciously aware of but I think they help me stay fresh and original, hopefully. – Yeah, they have clearly, have helped you stand out. Let’s go back if we can, just a second to, some of the previous books
that I just mentioned. The first one was Rework, right? Rework came out, actually
you did one before that. – We did one called Getting Real. Which is a self published book. – But Reword was our biggest,
first publishing book. – I have it, it’s got, this one again, you guys were kind enough
to send this to me, it’s dog haired like crazy already. But Rework looks like a tattered, a gift that you give to a puppy and it just shreds it because I had really
just consumed it a lot. But to me, that was the
first expose I’d had to your alls writing
rather than on the blog. And again, not, it never felt like it was contrarian as the objective,
the end goal being to say something that was different than everyone else. But how you, or how have
you programmed your body, your mind, your company, your ethos to think differently? – You know, I think a
big part of it for us is, again, like what actually makes sense. So our company is relatively small in our industry. 55 people in the company. We could have many more,
we don’t want many more. We want a smaller company. Which is again, different than most people in the industry. They want to grow, grow, grow. And it not that we want to be small because they’re big. It’s we want to be small because small works for us. For the people we have,
the kind of culture we want and for David and I running the business we don’t wanna deal
with a bunch of people. I mean it’s just hard enough
to get everything right with 55 so it’s not like
we’re trying to be different. We’re just trying to be what works for us. And I think that we have a, our company, and perhaps David and
I are pretty self aware about what we want and what we don’t want. We’re very clear about what we don’t want. In fact we’re more focused
on what we don’t want than what we want. It’s like whatever’s left
over is actually what we want. We’re very careful about that. – Don’t want any of these
things, hey I’ll take this. – Yes, basically. So size is important to us. Not raising money is a big part of that. So like, we’re a boot strap company and because of that we’re able to do a lot of things that you can’t do that if you raise money. Like, we can leave money on the table. We can say no to customers. We can stay small. We cannot have to grow or follow the hockey
stick pattern, you know. We can just do whatever
we want essentially. And we’re truly independent and I think that we value that more than almost anything else. – And how is that, does this come from your childhood? Cause it’s different than most. And it’s also different
than what’s celebrated which is one of the reasons
you’re an amazing guest, an amazing person to follow. But it doesn’t seem like this is, the path that you are on doesn’t seem like the natural path. To me you feel like the exception rather than the rule, again, which is brilliant. But how–
Where I come from. Was it something your
parents instilled in you? Were you always, can you trace it back? – I can probably think about it, yeah. So I’m an only child, I don’t know if that has anything to do with it, but I am that. – We have that in common. – Oh, alright. Very good. – There’s not too many of us. – I’ve always sort of just kind of done my own thing, you know, without the influence of a
brother or sister basically. I that’s part of it. My Dad always told me, just
never work for anybody. That was like his thing,
he always just told me never work for anybody. He also said never have
a partner in a business, which I do have. But, which has worked out great but he told me not to have a partner. My grandfather was an entrepreneur, he opened a grocery store business, it turned into something. Maybe it’s in my blood a little bit to sort of doing things my own way. But I think I also, I
worked in some companies when I was growing up that I think, even though I didn’t
realize it at the time, really informed me. Some small businesses that I thought the owner wasn’t nice
but the manager was nice. I always flourished in environments where I was trusted. And kind of didn’t give a shit when people didn’t trust me. I just did not care about them or their business at all. So trust had a lot to do with that. So I think it’s a lot of
these series of sort of, moments that really colored my outlook, although I didn’t realize
it when I was growing up– – Of course, you can only connect the dots looking backwards. – Looking backwards right? So I think that if I have
to connect those dots it’s probably a series of events, plus being an only child, plus my parents being
very supportive of me and giving me a lot of room to roam and make a lot of mistakes and get in a lot of trouble when I was younger, and learn from that and realize that independence and doing
what you want is good but there are limits too
and you can get yourself into real trouble, so
you gotta like really understand what those limits are, and then you can flourish
within that space. And not to just do what
everyone else does. And I think, I saw this with my dad, too. My dad worked for someone for awhile and just was miserable all the time. And then went off to work on his own. I shouldn’t say he was
miserable all the time but he talked a lot about his boss and he didn’t like the
work and the whole thing. And then he went off on his own and he was a lot happier. I think I saw that,
too, I saw that happen. So it’s probably these things altogether. I also, I just never
really was good at school. I was kind of doing other things. I had little businesses on the side. I would always just tinker
and figure stuff out for myself and found out that I can do what I wanted,
I could figure it out and make it work. – There’s a handful of,
you just did a nice job of mapping that out. So there are a handful
of those things that are every bit, that you
wear on your sleeve today, you guys, again, the pop
culture movement right now is hustle and if you’re not
doing 80 hours a week you’re not enough. I’m really interested I think
in, culture of being enough. Like right now, today, you’re worthy just because you’re here. Inspirations from folks like Brene Brown and others who talk
about that we don’t have to perform all these amazing tasks to be somehow worthy. It doesn’t have to be crazy at work to me is, it’s almost like a manifesto, anti-manifest to the pop culture train. But this is the obvious question coming at you here nice and slow, right down the middle of the pipe. But why don’t you want me to work hard? What if I want to work hard and surely I can, you know if I’m compelled to work hard constraining how hard I’m going to work is probably a bad thing
because then I’m not going to feel the joy and I’m gonna be slower, it’s gonna take me longer to get to quote 10,000 hours, I’m just
throwing all of this shit you’ve heard said about your books and your philosophy, in
the past in one question. Why are you hatein on
the hustlers? (laughing) – Well here’s the thing, right? I’ll hit this from a variety of angles. First of all, to me hard work and hours are not the same thing, right? So people say like, work hard, I can work hard in forty hours. Which I work basically forty hour weeks. I can hard for forty hours. I don’t need to work 80 to work hard. In fact, I think a lot of times people are spending a lot of times on things that don’t matter. Or a lot of time on
things that don’t matter. So they’re hustling and they’re busy but if they cut out a lot of the shit that they’re doing, they’d probably be getting
just as much stuff done and actually be able to go home and rest and get some perspective. This is the thing that I think is missing. When you work 80 hour weeks, which is you know is 10-12
hours a day essentially, it has to be more than 10
if it’s seven days a week. But let’s call it 12, whatever, people work on the weekends,
whatever it is, right? You know, you lack perspective because if you’re always in it you can’t get out of it and you’ve gotta get out of it to see and to think and have your brain come up with different ideas that you couldn’t come up with if you’re looking at the work itself. You need space, you need perspective, you need a different point of view, you need different
experiences, I think at least. And I think that these
things benefit people. And if you wanna be
really good at what you do I think that getting away from it is actually the way to get better at it. Cause then when you come back to it renewed, refreshed, with a new perspective versus being heads down all the time. I don’t know if you’ve ever worked on something creatively, or like, 10 hours in you’re no good anymore. You’re like, I can’t,
I’m cashed, I gotta go. And you go back, you get some sleep, hopefully the next morning
you have a new idea that you didn’t have. You could not have brute
force had that idea no matter how many hours you put in a row. You gotta get space. I think space is really valuable. – So what if you keep going? – The other thing I was
going to say about that, too, is that, the thing I hear sometimes is people say, what
about if you’re starting a brand new business, you need
to put more hours into it. Maybe there’s some truth to that but you gotta be careful
because the things you do are the habits you form. And you cannot not form habits basically. You’re gonna form em, right? If you’re– – We’re habit machines,
humans, we’re habit machines. – Exactly, and if we’re,
you’re working 100 hour weeks or 80 hour weeks or 70 or whatever it is when you’re getting started and you think that this
is the way you do it, this what you’re gonna keep doing. At some point, you’re not gonna be
able to do that anymore. Maybe when you’re 21 you can do that cause you have nothing
else going on in your life. But at some point probably have a family or not have a family or
whatever you’re gonna do but you’re gonna want to do other things, you’re gonna have other pursuits in life. And you’re not gonna get a chance to experience those things if you’re just busting your ass constantly cause you think that’s all you can do. If I don’t work 80, I can’t make it. And that’s just not fair
and it’s also not true. Because there’s a lot of people who work really, really
long, who don’t make it. So it’s not about the hours. It’s about what you do, a ton about it is about luck, you know
we have to all admit luck is a huge part of this, huge. – For sure. Not to mention
where you were born, what time, what gender, what race. – All of it. – What social economic
status you were born into, all those matter, probably more than work. – I think more than pretty much all of it. I was fortunate, I was born in 1974. So I went to college from 1992 through 96. And about 1995 the internet
became a thing, kind of. Before that it was a text based thing. – Yeah I remember I had an
email address at that time. No one else did. – Right, exactly. In the mid 90s it became
like this graphical thing where you could go to a web browser and look at websites. And I was fortunate to
come around or come up at that time when no one
knew what they were doing, cause it was brand new and I got to learn alongside everybody else. No one had an advantage. And I learned in the beginning and so I’ve had a lot of time doing it. I’ve gotten good at it. If I was starting today I wouldn’t, there’s no chance I would be able to do what I’ve done, including our own business. If our business went out of business today and I started another one tomorrow, I don’t think I’d be anywhere
as near as successful, ever, as what we’ve done with Basecamp just because we’ve been
doing it for a long time. We were at the right
place at the right time. Luck was there, we were good at it, but you need more than that, too. And so anyway, I just don’t think you can brute force some of this stuff. – I think it’s brilliant. And in a way, you’ve
probably heard the adage of like, constraints drive creativity. – THere’s that, too. – And if you just apply that same concept of constraints to time
that you’re gonna work on something, it’s like hey I wanna work a reasonable schedule. I do notice that it
forces me, for example, on the weekend or when I’m traveling, and I have to do something, what’s the, I forget the law, is it Pareto’s Law, whenever that something
expands to the time– – Parkinson’s Law,
that’s what it’s called, work expands to fill the time available, which is so true. – It’s so true. So by
setting some constraints I think, that’s what you’re
really getting at, right? It’s like those are
constraints that you’ve said I wanna place under, over my company on my particular day. Do you feel like, there’s
a beautiful little line in the book, fear of missing out, and what I hear often
and especially this town, we’re talking from San Francisco, I just came from downtown, all the start ups are all over the place. My home is right in
between Twitter and Uber and it’s like you can’t escape it. And there’s literally always something in the tech, entrepreneur
scene happening tonight. You feel like you’re
missing out cause you’re clocking 40 hours and– – No, I feel like I’m, what’s the opposite of missing out? Rich with– – Rich with, you have everything you– – I think of other things to do. I can do other things. I have no desire to
spend all my waking hours in one thing. I have hobbies, I have things I wanna do or I just wanna sit and do nothing. And not feel like I need
to be doing something or showing up to something because other people are there. I’ve never, ever had that. That’s never been a part of my thing which is like, I need to be there, cause they’re there, or this is where you’re supposed to be. It’s just not a thing for me. And in fact it drains me to have to be somewhere because
you’re supposed to be. I don’t like that. – So in the book, just give the away here, is they call it JOMO,
the joy of missing out. – The joy of missing out. – Yeah, joy of missing out. And that’s something we believe in at work which is that, and that’s kind of why it’s in the book, which is that, a lot of people today
and a lot of businesses feel like they have to follow everything that’s happening inside
of our organization. So they’ve got chat rooms open, they’re following a dozen
real time conversations all day long, cause if
they miss that one thing that’s going on, they’re
gonna miss something they think is important. Very few things that are
actually important happen at any given day. Most of it is just work, it’s boring, I mean not like boring, like you hate it, but just, it’s standard work. And that’s what kind of work mostly is. We don’t need to turn work
into a 24 hour news ticker. Where you’re following
breaking stories at work all the time, right? There aren’t breaking stories at work and there shouldn’t be, right? – How did we get there? – Technology, ruined it for us, I think. I truly believe that. I think the advent of
real time communications, real time chat primarily, at work, has caused more
problems than it’s solved. And there’s some good things about real time communication but I think it’s made it too easy to follow too many
things at the same time. And it sped up everything. Where you can’t not think
about something anymore. Because everything’s on a conveyor belt and the conveyor belt is constrained by the screen you have. And once the conversation
scrolls off the screen like it’s over. And so if you didn’t get your word in, – There’s a conveyor belt. – There’s a conveyor belt. it’s actually become, in a way we’ve become factory workers again in a sense because
in a conveyor belt in a factory setting
like the thing slides by, you’re at your station, you’ve gotta put your thing on there before it goes by or you miss it. And that’s what happened at work now with communication, is that communication is literally scrolling by, one line at a time, and if you’re not there when that thing is being discussed, you don’t get your word in, it’s over. You can’t put that word in two hours later because that’s like, two
hours later, you know, 14 feet up in the sky and you know on the conveyor belt right? So now people are forced to pay attention to everything all the time. And if you’re paying
attention to everything all the time when do you
have time to do your work? You don’t, basically. So we’re very careful
about that at Basecamp, we don’t make decisions in real time, we make decisions in slow time. We’re a synchronous primarily. We use chat and stuff and Basecamp has it built in, but we have primarily we post long form messages in Basecamp, like a
traditional message forum. Like old school, like
message board basically. And that basically says, here’s my idea, not one line at a time, but one thought at a time. I want you to read it, and you can tell I’ve put time into it. So I want you to take the time and think about it and get back to me tomorrow or the next day. It’s fine, there’s no rush. If it takes a few days
to discuss something, that’s fine, versus
trying to rush everything so we’re discussing it in 15 minutes. There’s like, no reason, why is everyone rushing all the time. I don’t get it, there’s no reason for it. – It’s so powerful. I think the fear of missing
out, I think in part, is you’ve crafted a really nice response that most of that stuff is just noise. And what do you say to
the person who’s listening or watching right now who’s saying, yeah but industry is moving quickly and my boss expects me, it’s really nice to be able to listen to you talk about this great
company that you built, but I got a boss and I
got a team and I’ve got all these things, none of which conform or
allow me to try and experiment with this great idea you’ve come up with, which means it doesn’t
have to be crazy at work. But that’s your work, right? So what about my work? – So I will grant people this, that’s it’s very difficult obviously to be able to do some of these things if you don’t have the power to implement some of these things. Some of these ideas, in the book, are for the business owner, who’s open minded and going maybe this isn’t the healthy situation I’m creating for my people, maybe I’m not creating
the best environment for them to do their best work, I expect their best work out of them, well if the environment isn’t great, then how are they gonna give that to me? So maybe some people at the top are gonna see this and go, okay there’s something I can do. Sometime you’re in the middle and you might manage a team and there’s some stuff there you can do with a team perhaps, right? And there’s other times where you really don’t have a lot of power except you’re own local space, you, maybe it is you and one other person but maybe it’s just you. And at that point I
will grant you the fact that some of these, you can’t probably go up to your boss and go, if he expects you to work 80, or she expects you to work 80, you can’t go, I’m gonna work 40. That’s just not gonna probably work, that’s probably not the right job for you and you don’t have, you have to figure out
what are you in control of and what are you not in control of. Which is really important
in life in general. What do you have control over, what don’t you have control over. And the things you have control over you can maybe change, and it might be that it’s just you. That you have control
of your own atmosphere, your own little space,
and then if don’t want other people to constantly
interrupt you all day maybe you shouldn’t be
interrupting them all day and perhaps you know,
you must be the change you wish to see in the world, that Gandhi quote or whoever said it. Which is like, if you
don’t like what’s going on at work and some of these
things might pertain to you and you wish people
weren’t interrupting you and you wish people weren’t pushing you and wish people weren’t calling you into more meetings and whatnot then maybe you shouldn’t do those things. And you can begin to effect, a little bit, maybe one other person going, you know what, that’s cool
that Chase hasn’t bugged me for awhile, like he used
to ask me all the time, now he’s finding out a
question, or getting answers for himself, maybe I
won’t bother him as much or interrupt him as much. And so you kind of have
some minor influence there and that’s the best you can do. But I think it’s unreasonable if your boss or the owner, or your manager
is out of their minds, like you’re not going
to be able to move them. But there are things you can do. I’ll give you another example, like something we often
encourage people to do, they wanna work at home, it might be hard to say
I want to work at home, flat out, you’re not
gonna get a yes there. But maybe you could say,
can you give me a shot to work one day a month at home? Can I try that at the very least? There’s a good chance
if you have a reasonable manager or boss to let you do that. And if you do that and you
show them that the world isn’t ending and that the
business isn’t falling apart and you’re getting your work done they’re gonna be like, okay,
maybe I’ll give you two days. Maybe you can start to
build up some successes. And it just takes a couple
small steps like that to finally build some leverage. Cause you don’t have any
leverage if you’re brand new and you don’t have any power. You don’t have any leverage, right? So you gotta build a
little bit here and there and then eventually you can find the equilibrium, what is the
balance that’s reasonable for you and your business
given the constraints that you’re under. – You mentioned trust
earlier and I think there’s a big part of trust
between a relationship, a company, an employer,
an employee, a boss, and a team mate is, do you in particular do anything to foster that at Basecamp. – Yeah. – How do you grow trust
if you’re largely remote largely asynchronous, you know, I’m trying to understand, cause right
now there are people out there like, I want everything
that Jason has, I want to not have 80 hour weeks
and packed schedules and I don’t want to be super busy and have overflowing
inboxes and all this stuff but I’m trying to get to practicality, like yeah man, you’re just talking about this utopia. – Let’s get practical. I mean we are talking about our business in this book, there are out things. But they didn’t start this way. We kind of figured out works for us and what doesn’t work for us. And there’s other things in here, like why doesn’t it say 30 weeks. We work 40, cause 40
is about right for us. Maybe for someone else it’s 45. I’m not so strict in that,
40 is a round, rough number, that’s the idea right? The trust thing is important
because first of all, it comes from a place of
laziness, to be honest. I don’t want to be looking
over everybody’s work cause I’m a little bit lazy. I don’t want to have to do that. I want to trust people to do great work. And also I don’t want to
have to do everybody’s work. I think sometimes when
you’re on top of everybody you’re actually ending
up doing everybody’s work for them, and I’m like, I don’t wanna do that, first of all. David doesn’t wanna do that. Second, you hire great people if you want to get great things out of them you gotta give them room to do their work. First of all, they’re
not gonna stick around if you’re on top of them all the time. They’re not gonna do great work if you’re looking over their shoulder all the time, who does, nobody does. So you gotta give people space and room and autonomy and trust and I think that’s the only way to really, in my opinion, it’s the way to get
the best out of people. And it’s the only way to actually build an origination that
surprises you constantly, which is what I want. I wanna be surprised. A lot of business owners don’t. They wanna know everything that’s going on and they want everything to be just right. I don’t care for that. I mean, I don’t surprised on the down side too often, but it’s okay to be surprised on the down side occasionally. I wanna be surprised on the up side because people are doing things, they have room to
explore, they’re creative, and they come up with something that we wouldn’t have come
up with out of ourselves. I love that potential, and the only way you get to that is by giving people space and stepping back, and letting them do great work on their own. Now how can this happen? – Yeah let’s go tactical. Actually I’m gonna interject one thing before we get to the how. Because we have a mutual
friend, Toby, from Shopify. Brilliant guy. He and Harley, love,
love, love those guys. – Great business. – Great business, Shopify. Probably a lot of Shopify
users listening and watching, like Basecamp. The reason I’m bringing it up it because you reference it in the book, Toby developed a thing
called the trust battery. Which is basically, well
I’ll let you explain it. – It’s great. That was something that really, when we hear that, it
made so much sense to us. We kind of had thought about, we kind of had the principles in mind, but we’ve never had a name for it. And sometimes you need
a name for something to really have it sink in. – Yeah, words matter to humans. – They totally do. And you gotta label it
so you can talk about it. So the trust battery,
the concept is I think, at Shopify, the way he describes it is, everybody who’s hired comes
in at trust battery 50% basically, which is, we mostly trust you, you’re probably gonna be good. But you gotta earn some more and you can also lose some. And so if you want more
autonomy, more responsibility, and more flexibility, you need to build up the trust battery. And that’s done through
personal relationships, it’s done through examples
of doing good work, it’s doing the right thing over and over and you just build up
your battery with people. The key though, is that the battery, by the way, there’s not
actual measure of the battery, it’s a mental thing, it’s like, you just have a sense of what your battery is with somebody and
batteries are independent and relative. So if we work together
we would have a battery between us, or actually
I would have a battery about you and you’ve
have a battery about me. But your battery might be different with somebody else in the organization. Which is why sometimes two
people aren’t getting along and you can’t understand why, you’re like, they’re great people,
why can’t they get along, and the problem is that, their battery between each other is low for some reason. They had a run in, someone
said they were gonna do something and they didn’t, someone didn’t deliver
on what their promise, whatever it was and so
their battery is low. It’s a great lens to look
at personal relationships inside a business and try to understand why some things work, some things don’t, when you can’t possibly understand why. It’s because everyone has
their own relative battery. That’s something that
we thought about a lot and we basically assume
that people come in at about 50% as well. And if people’s battery’s
low with somebody you have to kind of figure out why and what’s going on, you gotta figure out to build that up. Because if you and I
have a good relationship it doesn’t effect someone
else who has a bad one. They need to have a good one with the other person. You kind of have to recognize that it can only be repaired
directly with individuals. You might facilitate some stuff with them or put them on projects together or not put them on projects together if they’re rubbing the wrong way. And figure out other ways to have some good experiences between them so they can build their
battery back up again so they can trust each other again. It’s such a great, I
mean Toby nailed that. It’s really good and
when you begin to look at it that way a lot of
things that didn’t make sense in the organization begin to make sense. You go, of course they have
low battery between them and then you figure out, how do we fix it. – Trust battery. – Trust battery. – Brilliant – It’s great. – Presumably you’ve thought a lot about how you want your company
structured and run and we’ve talked how trust
is a really important aspect. What else, what are some
other really key things that you look for, that
you’ve built into you company, some of the ones that are
maybe more important to you. How do you think about it? – Well a lot it is the
things we don’t want. – That’s a great way of filtering. – That’s how we think about it primarily. We want to remain independent,
fully, completely, independent which means that we don’t want to raise outside money. We don’t want to have
a board of directors. So we haven’t raised outside
money for the business. Full disclosure, we took some
money from Jeff Bezos in 2006 but that wasn’t for the business. Jeff bought a small piece of my ownership and David’s ownership so that money went to David and I not to the business. We’ve always been 100% funded by customers and always will be. We don’t have any outside
influence on the business. We don’t have a board of directors. And those two things right there have a huge impact on
the things we can do. We don’t wanna sit in meetings all day. So we don’t have a meetings heavy culture which means that we write
a lot of things down versus say them out loud. We write long form and
write in detailed passages so people can absorb
everything on their own time versus having a meeting where you have to pull people off their work to sit in a room together
to talk about something that has nothing to do with right now but you’re having the meeting right now. It’s a very inefficient,
actually very inefficient way of doing it. To do that, to facilitate that we have to hire great writers. We don’t hire people who can’t write. Very, very, very important. It’s actually, probably the
number one hiring criteria after like can they do the work. Are they good at the thing? But the next thing is, can they write? And if they can’t write,
well, we will not hire them. – So do you do a test, a
written communication test? – They do the test for us, essentially by submitting cover letters. We look at the cover letter first. We don’t look at the
resume, don’t care about previous experience,
don’t care about where they went to school. Don’t care about any of that stuff. We look at the cover letter and if they don’t have one, resume gets tossed. They have to be able to write to us saying why they want this job, who they are, what’s important to them, why is it this job and not just any job. Or if it is any job just say that too. But I wanna be able to read it. And you read the letter and you quickly can tell this person can write, this person can communicate, they can express themselves,
they’re clear minded, they’re thoughtful,
they’re good at nuance, or good at the subtleties that matter, that separate them from somebody else, they know how to persuade. And persuasion is super important
in any line of business. Because you gotta sell, not
like sell to a customer always, but sell and idea
internally, to your team, whatever it is right? So the cover letter is fundamental for us. We’re very, very careful about that. So that’s the writing
test, it’s not a test, but it is, ya know what I mean? Have to hire good
writers so that we can do some of the other things that we can do. If you weren’t a good
writer you couldn’t work at our company and we’d
have to have more meeting and that’s not what we want to do. We don’t want to have a
lot of distance between ownership and a product, our ownership and the customers. We have a small company
because if we had a big company we’d have to have multiple
layers of management. And we don’t want to have
multiple layers of management cause things are always
lost in translation as you go and we just don’t want that. So we don’t do that. A lot of it is driven by
what we don’t want to do. We don’t want to have, like for awhile, we had four different products and to have four different products and maintain them at a high level we’d have to have more people and we’d have to work longer hours, we didn’t want to do that. So we said, let’s not have those anymore, let’s spin those off or kind of wind them down and let’s
focus just on Basecamp. And so we didn’t do what
we were doing before and we decided not to do that anymore. There’s a whole bunch of the don’ts. And the don’ts, again whatever is left, is what we do basically. At the end of the day it’s about, when you’re an entrepreneur
you’re building a company of course,
but you’re also building your own job and it’s a
selfish way of looking at it but I’m comfortable with that right now. Which is basically, where do I want to go work everyday. I want to do this job
maybe for 23, 30, 40 years, I don’t know, we’ve done it for 20. Hopefully we can do it for a lot longer. – Still having fun? – Still having fun, loving
the work, loving the people, it’s great. So I wanna keep doing this. So I wanna build the best
place for me to work, selfishly, and I’m
hoping that my judgements is what other people would
want out of a business as well. So you end just finding
like minds who want to work in a place like you wanna work. Similarly we built Basecamp for ourselves, the product for ourselves and just find customers who are like us or wanna be like us versus trying to convince people, who don’t understand what we’re doing, to understand what we’re doing. I’m not interested in
convincing anybody of anything. I’m interested in putting
something out there that we think is great,
that works well for us, that we explain well
hopefully, and clearly enough, and show the benefits of,
and if you want in great, if not, that’s cool too. Another thing I’ll say about a don’t, is, this comes down to our pricing
model for our products. Almost everybody in the
industry charges by the seat. So they charge per person, we don’t. – Bigger company, bigger bill. – Right, so $100 bucks a
person, a year, 10,000 people, big numbers, right? Well that has a material
effect on the business not just of course on the revenue, which it can beneficial for revenue, but what ends up happening is is that you end up just working for the people who pay you the most. And then you end up having customers you can’t afford to lose. Those are your worst customers, ya know? Nobody can pay us basically
more than $99 a month for Basecamp. I don’t care if you have
10,000 people or 3 people the price is the exact same. It’s $99 bucks, flat period,
no per person charges. And that forces us not to
do what we don’t wanna do. We don’t want to have to service a few high paying customers cause we don’t wanna have to lose those customers. So you end up taking good care of them and then you end up becoming
a consulting business and I don’t wanna do that. We make sure that nobody,
we make sure basically that we can afford to lose any customer. And in fact we could afford to lose, let’s call it 25% of our customers, any 25% at any time and we’d be okay. You couldn’t do that
if some paid you a lot and some paid you a little cause if it was the wrong ones you’d be– – Yeah the wrong 25%, you’d be screwed So I’m a big fan of business
that looks like static. Which is basically if you think about an old TV static, all
the dots are basically the same size and they’re random. I think that’s a good business versus a business where you
have a couple of big circles and a bunch of small dots, cause those big circles
is what the business is really about and then you’re just servicing a few customers. By not doing that we can afford to do a bunch of other things
that we want to do. It’s these collections of
don’ts that give us the dos. – That’s beautiful, it’s a great lens. I think a really, easy, simple, logical follow up question now. How do you decide those
things, cause there’s some it seems like you’d have
to have this inner compass and you strike me, again
from what I’ve known from all of our mutual
friends, and what I’ve read, these things are, they’re
self evident to you. They’re obvious, they’re
intuitive, they’re, and maybe I’m putting some
words into your mouth, but from where I’m sitting
and I’m trying to put myself in the shoes, and the ears and the eyes of the people who are actively listening, gosh he knows exactly what he wants and it’s actually easy to build something if you know what you want but I’m a 23 year old designer who just went out on my own, I’m a freelancer, and how did you develop your internal compass, your point of view, your style of work? – Over time, it’s modified, it’s changed. – That’s the first like,
pressure valve right there. You don’t have to know
everything immediately. – Hell no, Hell no. A lot of the stuff in
the book we figured out over the last five years. Because we’ve been trying
and trying and trying stuff and some things work
and some things don’t. So of course, when you’re
right out of school or brand new or whatever,
if you didn’t go to school, it doesn’t matter, whatever it is, like anything you’re brand new at it. You’ve gotta practice to get good at it. No one would expect you step on stage if you were, the first time
you ever played guitar, and like play. No one would expect that to be true. But people have that
expectation of themselves when they start a business, that they’ve gotta have
it all figured out. But you’re on stage for the first time, like you would be with a guitar, you’re not gonna be any good. So you’ve gotta figure this out, the key though, I think, is that you’ll benefit yourself by going slowly. And a lot of people in business today think you need to go really fast. When you go really fast
you skip over lessons and you don’t learn them
until it’s too late. Because we kept our business
small for a long time, we’ve always been as
small as we possibly can, we just grew within our means, we never got ahead of ourselves, we learned the lessons and we figured out what we were good at and
what we weren’t good at. Think about if you had a buffet of food and you just tried to taste
everything really fast you wouldn’t really know what you liked and what you didn’t cause all the flavors would blend together, it
wouldn’t be pleasurable. But if you had a week
to sample all the food, like slowly, you’d go, I
like that, I like that, I like that, I like that. I don’t like that, I don’t like that, when you move slowly you give yourself a chance to think it over. And to feel it and really know what it is and to absorb it. It’s the same way, another food analogy, if you eat really fast,
you don’t know you’re full until it’s too late. If you eat slowly you don’t
eat as much cause you feel it. Your body takes some time to
adjust to what you’re eating and I think the same
thing is true in business. So for us it’s been a
matter of moving slowly, questioning what we’re doing, reflecting on what we’re doing, we reflect a lot, was that worth it, did that make sense, was this
what we want to do again, do we want to do this same thing again? And another thing I
always use a little like, a little trick perhaps, whenever I make a decisions, I go, will I be happy with this in a year? And I don’t know, but I think about that, I go, I know I’m making it about now, but will I regret this decision? And I’m not always right about it but I’ve gotten better
at honing that instinct. So that’s another
framework that I use a lot. Why not be happy about this,
it’s really easy to make short term decisions that
you think for right now, but you’re stuck with a
lot of these decisions and you don’t want to regret these things. I don’t wanna pile up regrets as I go. Or pile up things that
I wish I hadn’t done, I don’t wanna do that. So I just think moving
slowly is the way to do it. But it’s hard for people because the expectation, to get back to your point, society and the entrepreneurial
community, whatever, is all about speed. – Gary Vaynorchuck wants
you to go real fast. – Gary, right. – He’s been on the show, good friend. – Love Gary, I love Gary. We disagree on probably 10% of things but he’s spot on on
everything else, I think. But yeah he has a very
different perspective on speed and hustle and growth and 24/7, if you’re not working hard enough, someone else is gonna out work you. I don’t believe there’s such a thing as out working anybody. Because that’s all about, when you talk it that way, you’re taking out a variable which is, does the work even matter at all? A lot of people can work hard and long and jump from meeting to another, and one coast to another, and go to this networking event and
go to this conference. Yeah, you’re busy. Yeah, you’re playing the game. You’re acting like you’re an entrepreneur and you’re busy and you’re doing it but are really doing what matters? That’s the real question. And so that’s why I don’t
like the whole aspect of working long and hard and all the time cause it doesn’t consider
value and quality in that work. Now Gary would say, Gary would agree, he would say if he were sitting here, he’d go, totally, you
gotta do what matters. If you’re not doing what
matters you’re a fucking idiot. And he’s right about that, too. But you don’t hear that
talked about enough. You just hear about the
hustle and time and the hours. – Because those are also
things, I have learned in this and in a previous life, where I was primarily a photographer, it’s like if you’re not doing the thing, someone else is, and therefor
they’re getting better at your craft, and everything is relative cause I gotta be faster
than Bobby or Sally or whatever in order to get the prize. But it’s just not true. – It’s not, I don’t think it’s true. – I’ve come to realize, it can’t be true. – It can’t be true. Cause the understanding then would be that if you just work hard enough you will get all the work that’s possible in the world. You can’t do all the work anyway. There’s so much and so many clients and so many things that you can’t possibly command it all or whatever. – Busy, shows not really being effective but it’s more a lack of
priority, it seems like. – Right, yeah. Yes, I agree, it really is. And the other reality I think is that any given day you only probably
have a good couple hours, 3, 4 hours max of really
good work anyway, in you. You can’t, you’re not
really working an 8 hour day or a 10 hour day or a 12
hour day like on the thing, you’re probably not actually. A lot of time is wasted
even in a short day, probably a lot of time is wasted on things that don’t actually matter. – There’s so much– – One other thing actually, I wanna say one other
thing about this because, part of me doesn’t like what I’m saying. cause I don’t think it’s fair, in that, I shouldn’t be giving
a 23 year old advice, cause I’m 44, it’s too far, I’m too far removed. I don’t think I should actually be, no one should listen to me about how to start a business, I haven’t started a business for 20 years. I can talk about how to run a business, I can talk about how to
build a profitable business, and how to hire people, and how to market, and how to build products,
how to make decisions, cause that’s what I do everyday. But I haven’t started a
business for 20 years. And I haven’t been 23 for 20 years. So I kind of think advice
has an expiration date. It certainly does and if
you’re starting a business you’re probably better
off talking to someone who just started one six months ago. I don’t care if they’ve made it or they haven’t or they don’t know yet, doesn’t matter. But they’re much closer to the thing. And I think in our world, in the entrepreneur world especially, there’s a lot of people dishing advice that haven’t done the thing ever, or they did it a lot time ago. And I think you need to discount that, I think advice goes
stale, has a half life, and it’s pretty quick. – It’s surprising how much advice there is out in the world and
even I try and be free with giving it and open to getting it and actually aggressively seeking it. What I found is that what it
helps me do more than anything it’s not like, oh Freddy
said hop on one leg, so I’m gonna go hop on one leg, I think it’s like, no,
Janine said hop on one leg, Freddy said, you know, do the cha cha, and Gregory said do something else and what I need to do is, I
haven’t thought about this and it’s really aggregating those opinions into something that works for you versus just like signing up wholesale for work 80 hours a week or whatever – Yes, you should absorb,
I would say you should listen to me and you
should listen to Gary. We’re polar opposites of that point and you should figure
out what works for you. It’s not about what I say or what he says, these are just points on
the spectrum basically. I think you do need to form a matrix and pay attention and then you also need to do what you believe. And I think one of the
things I had noticed, I do remember when I was younger, although again, I’m far removed from that, is that a lot of people,
it’s funny because, a lot of people who are
younger are really confident sometimes, they put off
an air of confidence but they’re really not sure what to do most of the time. And they’re afraid to
just go with their gut because they feel like they
can’t possible know it yet. I think when you’re in
college you kind of feel it but then you get out, then you’re like the king of schooling, like this is the last year of school, you now know everything. I figured out school. – Just in time to leave. – Right, then you leave. And then you’re into a
professional world where you’re a newbie, complete newbie. So that confidence goes away, I mean some people still have it, some people, they’re over confident which is bad, too. But I think people begin
to second guess themselves, like I don’t know what to do, so I’m gonna look to those who’ve done it and just do what they do. I think the only, if I was
to throw some advice back to that time, it would
be, follow your gut, trust yourself and like,
you probably know more than anyone does about you. – I’m a huge advocate of instincts. – The other thing is,
look, I believe everyone is making it up as they go, anyway. – For dang near everything. – Yes, for everything. So every business is
pretty much held together with duct tape, people are figuring out as they go, they’re making it up as they go, you know, yeah, you have ideas, you have thoughts, and you should have a
perspective and whatever. But you’re still making it up as you go. And so the idea that this
person or that person has it all, if I just read their book, I will know what to do, and if I just, they don’t know either. We know what’s worked for us. – That’s why you are so
good about articulating that in your books. – We’re clear about that. This works, and I wanna be very clear because some people
would say we’re preachy, and I see where it comes from but really we’re just sharing our story in a passionate way, hopefully, and we believe it, we believe
everything we’re saying. But this is what worked for us and your environment and your time with your collection of people, it’s gonna be different. You can not replicate something. – Was trusting your instincts something that you had to learn and
do you have some examples of where you went against your gut and it went badly? – I’ve always been that way. – Trusted your guy, you mean? – Trusted my gut, I just
feel like it most cases, now again, I’m fortunate
for a variety of reasons. My parents were very supportive,
I had two great parents, my parents are still married,
a lot of stability at home, they’ve always supported me. – It’s important to acknowledge this. – They gave me $5000 bucks
when I got out of college to get a computer and that was like to get going. So they helped with that. And there’s some things
I had clearly, obviously, I got into a lot of
trouble when I was younger. And if I was someone else I
could have spent some time somewhere else ya know. Things might not have been as rosy for me. I acknowledge all of that. But I think at the end of the day, I’ve always trusted my
gut and just gone for it. Because I feel like you might as well. If you’re gonna fight
against what you believe you’re not gonna have that happy life, I don’t think. Even if this telling you to go this way and this is telling you to go this way, you should pay attention to those inputs. But if you’re always doing
what you don’t wanna do because someone else is telling you to or the data is telling, whatever. You’re probably gonna be miserable. Unless you don’t really know where to go. And if you don’t know where to go at all, you don’t have a point of view at all, you probably will follow something else and you could probably do well. Some people do well that way. I think unbalanced though, if you spend your life
doing what other people tell you to do or what other
people say you should do you’re probably just not
gonna be that satisfied at the end of the day. And I’d rather screw up, I’d rather not live up to my potential, whatever that means, but do it my own way. And feel like I’m satisfied
and I gave it a shot in my own way, I feel like
I’m satisfied that way, otherwise I would feel
like there would be things I would have done differently,
I don’t wanna feel that way. Now when you have a business partner and you have other things, sometimes you have to
compromise, and you debate, you butt heads and you figure it out. You can’t always do what you want to do. And I’m not suggesting that’s what you should always do either. But I think for the most part, you should probably trust
your gut and your instinct there’s something in there, it’s innate, and I think it’s probably pretty smart. – Do you have the same advice for, the audience that pays
attention to this show, largely entrepreneur,
solopreneurs, small design teams, it’s basically evenly a
third, one third of people are freelancers, one third are FT’s and one third are split between people who are onto a 5th, 6th career and people who are just getting started. Really interesting and
pretty even curve across those areas of consideration. But let’s just for a
second take into account the individual, solopreneur, entrepreneur, starting a business, on his or her own, and so a lot of what we’ve
been talking about, like, your partners, your
business, set your own rules, does all the same stuff
apply to an individual creators first business? – I think it’s easier. Here’s the sort of, it’s
not the dirty secret, it’s just like– – No, no I like calling it dirty. – Alright, let’s call it dirty. Business only gets harder. The easiest business you’ll ever be in is your own business, which is you. Not it might be hard
because it’s always hard. Like getting your first client is hard. If you have nothing and
you have to get your, that’s challenging, but
it only gets harder. Because you start adding people, and they need more responsibilities, you start adding more people, pretty soon you need someone
to help manage those people. And then you’ve got personalities, you’ve got politics internally. It just gets harder. – We’re social animals so
there’s social, I get it. – Right, so, then, you’ve got a bigger monthly payroll to cover and then you probably end
up getting an office space, and then you’ve got rent. It doesn’t get easier, ever. A lot of the things about
business I think like, the smaller you are the purer it can be, and you can live up to
a lot of these ideals that become harder
actually, as you get bigger because there’s more pressures and there’s more
influences, and there’s more outside pressure, and
different forces pushing you in different directions
that you don’t have when no one’s paying
attention when it’s just you. When it’s just you, when
you talk to entrepreneurs successful ones, I know a number of them who’ve done extremely well for themself and you ask them what was their best time? It was when they were smaller. It’s when, I remember when there 5 people working out of my apartment. I remember, I haven’t talked
to Joe in a long time, but from Airbnb, Joe. – He’s been on this show.
Love Joe. Joe Gebbia. – I visited them early on when they were working out of, I think his apartment, him or Brian, whoever’s apartment it was,
maybe it was their apartment. – I think it was actually. They were Arisdy, I think. – Originally, yeah. They were working here in San Francisco. I was in town for a wedding and I wrote Joe, I love
what you guys are up to, can we meet, or whatever? He’s like, yeah come on by, so he picked me up in his pick up truck, I think it was, and we
drove it to his apartment. That’s where, Airbnb was there. And I bet, if you asked him
today, his favorite moments I’m sure there’s some amazing, they built an amazing business. But I bet there’s some
stuff, that he’d be like, I loved it when we were in our apartment. It’s funny that as a business grows it grows away from the moments that everyone really loved. And then you end up
having all this other shit you gotta deal with all the time. It’s like the good ol’ day basically. And we both decided to keep it, just the good ol’ days as best that we possibly can. It’s not like we, we used
to be 4 people or 3 people, we’re 55 now, but we’re
really trying to stay as close to the good ol’
days as we possibly can for as long as we possibly can versus jettisoning those and going
off and growing so fast that you’re so detached
from the good ol’ days. I don’t ever want to
be detached from those. – I’m gonna run through a short list of things you’ve thrown under the bus. – Okay, please. – I don’t know if it’s the proverbial bus- – Is it a short list, it
sounds like a long list. – I don’t know too many
buses that are proverbs but the, okay so you’ve talked shit about ambition. – Yeah, to some degree. We’re ambition in a different way. – Okay, let me give you the list. I’ll give a list of three things and then we can through each of them. Ambition, goals, and again
you’re like literally throwing, and quantity, I’ll say Cause you emphasize quality. So you’re talking about more people, just as the theme, you’re generally throwing quantity, you
don’t want 4 products, you want one, you don’t 100 people, you want 50 people. You don’t want quantity, you want quality. Are these universal things that, as I’m saying them, do
you really unite against– – Those three things? – And maybe there’s others,
but there’s just a theme of those three, I think goals
is especially interesting but let’s take each of these in stride. – I’d like to talk about the goals one. Let’s start with ambition though. I just think we have a
different definition of it. I think in our industry
you’d be considered ambitious if you’re working crazy hours, if you’ve raised a bunch of money, if your goal is to dominate
or destroy a competitor, like dominate a market,
destroy a competitor, conquer market share,
like there’s all these, bellicose, war like terms, that’s what ambition looks like if you were to look at it from afar. Who’s gonna build the
tallest office building, who’s gonna have the most employees, whatever it is. That’s not our definition of it. For us, it’s, do we enjoy
going to work everyday? Like, we’re ambitious there. I wanna have a great day everyday. I don’t always have a great day but that’s my ambition is to make sure that my day is free to do great work. And that everybody at our company has a whole free day to do great work. That’s what we’re ambitious about. We’re ambitious about sharing our story and telling these stories and showing that there is an alternative to what we’re rallying against. So that’s kind of another ambition is to share ideas. And to make something
great for our customers and for ourselves, that’s it. It doesn’t need to be bigger
than that, essentially. That’s just a different form of it really. Goals is a great one because at Basecamp we don’t have,
basically don’t have any goals. We don’t have, I’m gonna
get all the acronyms wrong cause we don’t have them. KPI’s, OKR’s, I don’t know
what the other ones are. We don’t have any goals, we
don’t have financial goals other than to be profitable, which we’ve been for 20 years every year. But we don’t have revenue
goals or growth goals or any customer growth goals or any number we’re trying to hit. Just, that’s not what we do. We don’t want to do that. We just want to do the best work we can. – Isn’t that a goal? – Ah, yeah, fine. I’ll give you that. But it’s like, it’s not really, it’s not a measurable goal. – Once you assume that, you’re like okay, check, that covers everything.
Everything. – Yeah, basically. I look at goals as people set numbers and they try to achieve those and then either you do or you don’t. and if you do, you set another one. If you just do the best work
you’re capable of doing, shouldn’t you be doing that anyway? What is the goal have to do
with you doing great work? If you’re just trying to
do the best work you can, you’re either gonna hit it or you’re not. But if you don’t try to
hit, you just intrinsically want to do great work,
that’s enough, I think. That’s what we’ve always believed. – How do you rally a team then? For someone who’s a
leader of a small team or even a big team. – You give em the space to do great work. And they’re intrinsically
motivated by the work itself and proud of the work that they’re doing versus the statistic. If you look at like a cabinet maker, do they need goals to be
proud of the thing they build? Finish the thing, do the joints, whatever, and sit back and look at it and go, that’s great work, I’m proud of that. They can look at it closely and go, I’m proud of that work. You know, we didn’t this,
I’ll do better next time. Whatever it might be. You don’t need to measure everything to be proud of it. You just be proud of the work. And be proud of the
people you’re working with and be proud of the interaction between the people and all the things, work is so much more
than hitting that number, it’s about like, what
was that experience like, did I enjoy working on this project, was it fun, was it enjoyable, did I learn something new? It’s that kind of stuff
that really matters. – The human stuff. – I mentioned this to Tim, on his show, about this thing, this
moment I had where I was, I don’t exactly remember the numbers, I think I was running, I run, I don’t run as much as I
used to but I run, jog, whatever, and I remember
there was awhile back where I was trying to hit some number, I think it was like 6 minute mile, whatever the hell it was, and I did a 6:09 or something. And I remember feeling
like upset for a second that I didn’t hit the 6. And then just like, why does that matter? Did I enjoy the run? Did I go out and have a good run, yeah. Am I, feel like I worked out, yeah. Did I get some fresh air, yeah. All the things I got
from it were the value, the nine seconds didn’t matter at all. Why would it matter? Why should it matter
and why should I leave that moment feeling like I
didn’t do what I set out to do. I didn’t achieve the goal
that I made up for myself that I just made. There’s no reason that I had to run a six, maybe I should have
set it at 6:09 or 6:08, Why’d I pick six? Why, it’s all arbitrary for the most part. It’s few experiences like that plus just the recognition that like whenever we set a goal
that’s number based, it sort of discounts all the other things that where the real value is. So that’s why we don’t believe in goals. And then last one was,
what was the last one? – It was a lot of, like
you’re not seeking quantity. – Quantity. – Or sort of, I guess maybe
it’s it would be filed under ambition, I was
looking for just threads. It’s like less people, less
number of products, less– – It’s easier, so getting
back to the laziness, in a sense, it’s easier to do that. I think also, a lot of things
that are about quantity and size are ego, it’s all ego. And I’ve learned to check that as much as I possibly can. And we all have it, still, of course. But just to aware of why is
that I want to hit this number? Is it so I can tell people about it? And if I tell people about, why am I doing that, is
it just to puff me up? I’ll still do that from time to time and I’ll catch myself and go on Twitter, we sold this many books. Why am I saying those things? And some it is like cause I’m proud of it. But a lot times it’s
because of something else that’s deeper that’s not healthy. And so of course, we all have ego, you can’t probably get rid of it. But it is sort of the enemy, as Ryan Holiday wrote. It’s a force you need to be careful about. I think a lot of the numbers chasing, a lot of the puffing, all that stuff is really about ego. And we just try to remove
as much of that as we can. – Have you done that much of personal work to be able to work through that or is this like a thing that
you’re parents taught you, going back to you being an only child and deciding that you were becoming aware that you knew what you
wanted and what you didn’t and these were things that were earthly? – I don’t know. I don’t know where it came from. I’ve become more aware
of it recently, I guess. Reading Ryan’s book was important for me, although I felt it was
kind of one of these books where you read it and you’re like, oh yeah, I’ve kind of felt this way but I didn’t understand why. – That’s what a good book does right? It codifies or puts into words something you’ve been feeling. – Which is like the thing with Toby and the trust battery thing. Like we kind of had thought about that but didn’t know what to call it. I think that was part of it. I feel like a lot of the ego victories I’ve ever had have been very shallow and very temporary. And it just doesn’t feel worth it to put all that energy into something that’s so shallow and temporary basically. And I still have more work to do in this area, of course, But it’s something I’m
paying attention to lately, especially lately, I don’t really know why other than a few things got into, I read some of Ryan’s
books, got a little bit into Stoicism, got into some other things that are really kind of clarifying some of these things for me. And maybe it’s just maturity as well. I think probably ten years
ago I wouldn’t have been ready for some of these things maybe, I wasn’t quite there yet. Also, just general observation, I see a lot of people who are ego driven and they end up miserable because you can never really quench it. You can never fill that thing, you can never, ever get it out of the way. And so if that’s what
you’re trying to fill up, if that’s the thing
you’re trying to fill up, you’re never gonna get there and you’re just gonna be
chasing these false things and I don’t wanna do that either. – I think you’ve done a
great job of articulating your personal compass. You just listed a few, I guess influences. Let’s pull on that
thread just a little bit. Other influences like
Scandinavian design or you mentioned– – Architecture. – Sure, Architecture. The Dahli Llama. You got
a couple of quotes here. – I’ve thrown a few quotes out. I have a lot of quotes. – What are just some
of, survey Jason Fried’s mind scape and what are some influences, what has helped shape
your view of the world. – Sure, I’ll throw out
a variety of probably random things. – Yeah, this is what I’m hoping for. – I’ve always been a
big fan of architecture. I love walking into
buildings and getting a feel for how they make you feel and space, I’ve always like space. I’ve studied architecture for a long time. – Informally, formally? – Informally, I would never
be able to put up with school to study it formally. – Yeah, brutal, I was
not good at that stuff. But I’ve always looked
at, I like materials, I like to look, I’m curious,
first thing I’m like, wrought iron, is this wrought iron, look at the wood, what is it like? I’ve always been curious about how things join together, quality of something, how it feels, how it
ages, I look to at things and how they age. That’s how I actually
judge quality on things. A lot of modern architecture for example, true modern, like today’s
modern architecture, I don’t think it’s really good because it doesn’t look
good in five years. The way a lot of building are white, they’re this sort of trend
to make white buildings but then you get rust
stains that come down because they didn’t use
a stainless steel screw in the roof, so you get,
they don’t look good as they get older. And when you get look at things
like old buildings, brick, stone, wood, these things just age and they look better and better over time. I like to pay attention
to those kind of details in things. I love nature, I love just taking walks, I love looking very closely at nature. I think that– – Give me an example. – Flowers, plants,
specifically like flowers. I like to go look at flowers cause I think people are always looking
through design annuals to find color combinations that work or shapes or like ideas. Go look at a flower, you can’t beat it. And if you look really close you can start to see how everything’s,
like how they have, the shapes repeat, and
there’s just some real beauty in how it’s structured and the how colors always bleed together. It’s very rare that you have sharp colors that hit, they tend to
gradiate into each other. I always find that to be interesting. Just how, nature’s the
best design solution. If you look at nature, these things have been perfected for millions of years. Like this leaf is the
best leaf it’s ever been, ever, right? So people are looking towards
other software products, if I’m in the software
world, I never want to look at software to get inspiration. I wanna look at leaves,
I wanna look at plants, I wanna look at trees, I
wanna look at buildings, I wanna look at furniture,
I wanna look at other things that are designed, that
have been considered and thought through from
a different perspective. Because if you just look at software, if you’re in the software
business and you look at software, you’re gonna end up
making what everyone else is making. Everything we make, we
try to make from a unique point of view, which is
based on other things, and not what everyone else is doing. Primarily because I don’t
think, again I don’t want to chase, I don’t wanna do
what other people are doing because then I don’t really
understand why I’m doing it. I’m just doing it because
everyone else is doing it. That’s part of it too. So architecture design materials, nature, I have some land up in Wisconsin that I’ve been restoring over time which has been a really fun project, it’s like a 10 year project almost so far. Taking this land back to the
way it was supposed to be before it was farmed
and tilled and sort of invasive species have
come in, so I’m doing prairie restoration and some stuff. Which is really fun to watch. Very slow process and that’s something that’s really inspiring
me, is takes 10 years to get some of this basic stuff done. Like you’d come and look at the land and you’d be like, yeah okay. And I’d be like, you don’t even understand what’s happened here in 10 years. Let me take you through and
that’s really fun for me. What else? The other thing is, frankly,
when it comes to business I’m way more inspired by the
local corner grocery store than I am by Amazon or Apple
or any of these companies. In fact, I’m jealous of
the small businesses, real small businesses. I’ve got a friend who owns a grocery store down the street from me
and he knows his customers by name. We have at Basecamp, we
have over 100,000 people who pay for Basecamp, companies. I’ll never know their names. We’re the scale where I can’t actually know our customers, or
customers, ultimately are numbers and data and I know some of them. But I would love to be
able to own a business where if someone walked
in the door and I’d hey, hey Jim, hey Joan, and
just get to know them and know who they are. I admire those kind of
businesses and I think about how can we be more like them. We can’t really, but are there
ways we can more like them. So I don’t think it’s a good idea to look to your own industry and look up. I think it’s good to
look at other industries and actually look at
different kinds of businesses that are smaller and get
to the real pure side of what business is all about. Which is good product,
treating people well, returning someone’s
call when they call you, knowing someone’s name,
and that kind of basic fundamental stuff like
your grandparents would do if they had a shop, that kind of thing. – What drives you crazy, in a bad way? – Wasting time, like I cannot stand, luckily we don’t have meeting anymore, but when I was in the
client services business, like doing client work,
I’d have to go to meetings, they’d want me to drive
over and talk about this thing that literally
we could talk about on the phone in five minutes. And I’d have to go over there and commute and go there and sit there and we’d talk for an hour when it was only five minutes worth of stuff. But you’re there so you keep going. That’s one example of wasting time. But processes that don’t have to happen, time that doesn’t have to be
spent on those kinds of things, traffic, hate traffic. Traffic to me is the
ultimate waste of time. Bad place for that. But traffic to me is one of those things where it’s like, man this is, yeah you can listen to an
audio book, or a podcast or something, but it
feels like a waste of time to be doing that in that setting. The other thing I would say in business that drives me a little
bit crazy, I would say, is how our industry specifically holds up, businesses that are actually terrible fundamental businesses, as huge successes that people try to follow. Take Uber for example,
for a variety or reasons I’m not a fan of theirs, I do still use their product sometimes though. But they just lost $100
billion last quarter, I think. So they’re just hemorrhaging money. And they’re gonna go IPO and some people are gonna get rich but
it’s a shitty business. But people look at that and go, I wanna be the next Uber of, I wanna be the next, you wanna be the next like billion dollar
loser of this business? I don’t understand why bad businesses, great ideas, totally, but bad businesses are being help up as the model businesses. I think that’s really unfortunate
and really irresponsible of sort of the industry at large to celebrate that kind of stuff. – I think there’s this big,
we’re a culture of lemmings, we’re a culture of attention,
or the attention goes, some of it gets attracted
and that breeds more. And that’s why I know of
started off with thinking joyously and joyfully of
you and your partner David and Basecamp and what
you’ve built and the books, as a little bit of contrarian culture but it doesn’t seem like
it’s in and of itself. Contrarianism for contrarian ism’s sake, it’s really more like, no, no we’ve actually thought about it, we don’t want to run a business like Uber. – Yeah, don’t want to. – What do we value? We value freedom, independence, authority over our own domain, a lot of I think that’s part of why I was so excited to have you on the show and I was gonna, if you
could give some advice, flip this to the positive
and instead of like framing it as negative and contrary it’s a really powerful tool that way you personally have applied it. So give some advice for the folks, knowing that we’ve got
all sorts of different walks of people, creators
and entrepreneurs listening try and give some advice to them to help them think more like you. – The first thing is I would say do whatever you can to practice getting good at saying no. Which is really hard
when you’re brand new. You come into a new company
and you can’t be the no person. You start a new business it’s hard to be the no person, you want
to take all the business you can get, I get all of that. But somehow find a way
to practice saying no. Because no is the only
word that will ever protect your time and attention,
that’s all you’ve got. And everyone wants a piece of it. And wants a piece of more and more, more and more people want a piece of it. Technology wants a piece of it, other people want a piece of it, and if you don’t have any of that left for yourself, you’re
never gonna be able to do what you want to do. You’re never gonna be
able to think the way you want to think and
act the way you wanna act because your time is now
owned by everyone else. I’m not being, I feel like
I’m failing on the question to a degree because I’m
being totally practical. I don’t have, there’s
no silver bullet clap, snap you fingers, clap your hands, way to be good at this, but what I’ve noticed, here’s one like more practical thing. Client services, you
probably have a lot of people who watch this who are
designers, photographers, that sort of crew, right? And something I hear from
them all the time is, you’re lucky cause you
have, they’re saying to me, you’re lucky because you
have a product business. I have to answer to
clients and if a client call me at 11 o’clock at night
I have to answer the phone. And I say, fuck no you do not. That’s a place to practice. Just because someone pays you does not mean they own you. It certainly does not mean they own your nights and weekends or
any of that kind of stuff. People think that their
clients actually expect that from people but they typically don’t, you give it to them, by answering the calls
at 11 o’clock at night, or by getting back to them
in email at ten 10:30. You’re giving them
permission to ask that again and you set the tone. So practical, basic thing
is, and this happens all the time, so I know
this a practical one, for all you kids at home. We said we were gonna do that. Is that, if it’s late
at night, it’s 9:30, 10, whatever it is, and one
of your clients writes you and they’re demanding something or asking for something,
just don’t respond and get back to them the next morning. And see what happens,
most likely it’ll be fine. If they go, hey what the hell, like why didn’t you get back to me, say it was 10, and it’s either family time or I’m sleeping or I’m
reading or I’m watching, whatever, it’s my time,
I’ll get back to you the next morning, first
thing in the morning I’ll get back to you,
you’re my top priority in the morning, when my day starts. You probably won’t have to do that though, you’ll probably just find that people are cool with it. And you just imagine that they were not, so a lot of this stuff is about you setting the tone and
you setting the direction for a relationship,
professional relationship with other people, especially clients. So that would be the one practical thing I would say is do not answer that email late at night, wait til the next morning. It’s gonna be okay. That’ll build your confidence and that’s one way you can begin to start saying no and getting
comfortable with saying no and realizing that no is
a very reasonable answer in many cases. You might think it’s
not but it actually is. And that’s the best way to build a moat around your time and attention which is all you’ve got. I know that was a bit circular but that’s where we end up. – I think it all plugs together nicely so there’s a voice inside
our head that often works against us. – I know that voice. – That creates a lot of
stories. That’s basically my question is, so do you have this voice, have you trained it, if we’re just habits, what are some of things that you’ve done to either unlearn these bad habits or rather, if you wanna
put it in the positive, to train yourself to feel good about ignoring that client email at 10 pm or whatever. How do you train your own habits? – I think the key is, is
first I don’t think you can unlearn or reverse something. You have to transition into something. So a big part of it is
not being disappointed if you screw up again. Cause if you’re like, I’m
not gonna do this anymore, then you do it again and you’re upset, that’s unreasonable and
you’re putting unreasonable demands on yourself. So I think it’s about knowing
that any sort of transition between one course of action and another is going to take time. And it’s gonna be a smooth transition, might be some bumps along the way. But you just have to set a
slightly different course and know it’s gonna take
some time to get there. That’s the only thing that I’ve found that works for me. Like, cold turkey, is a
very difficult thing to do for people and I don’t think
it’s a really successful pattern for most. Some people are really good
at, I’ll never do this again, and they’re great at that. I don’t think it’s reasonable
necessarily for most people. So I think as you’re
transitioning be extremely easy on yourself. Because you can talk yourself
out of the transition really quickly and then
bounce back to the bad habit. So I think that’s the thing
I’ve figured out how to do is just to be fair and kind to myself as I’m changing, otherwise
it’s not so good. – Anything else you do
specifically for self care? Other than just being kind to yourself? – Sleep is important,
although I have a new baby. We just had a baby two months ago. – Congratulations. – Thank you very much. – Eight weeks? – Eight weeks old. – You look great for
having an eight week old. – I feel tired right now, to be honest. But thank you very much. My wife is, she’s enduring
a little bit more of it right now, we have a four year old, too. So we’ve been through
this once but of course in the first few months
it’s really difficult on the mother, feeding
and the whole thing. But we’re doing okay right now. But sleep is the most important thing. And there’s a great book, Why We Sleep, I don’t know if you’ve read that or have heard of it. – I just saw it on your
feed the other day. – Wonderful, highly recommend it. It’s really enjoyable and interesting. Smart guy, but can write a book in a really approachable way, cause I’m not a scientist, but it’s scientific, wonderful book. But sleep is the one thing
that affects everything. So you gotta exercise, you gotta eat well and all that stuff. But you could actually
eat like shit for a week and you’d kind of be alright. You can skip exercise for a week and you’d kind of alright. If you get a few bad nights
of sleep, you’re trash, like everything in your body is trash. Heath wise you’re bad, your temper is bad, people know that you haven’t slept well. – Cognition is down. – Cognition’s down, can’t remember things. You’re not nice, all these things. So sleep’s really
important, so I try to get seven to eight hours of
sleep right now, a night. Usually like to get a
little bit more than eight but right now it’s just not quite possible with the kids but okay,
I’ll get back to that. Gotta exercise a few days a week. I’m not like crazy about it. I’m not, I don’t do like– – Ultra marathons– – No I’ll do a couple
mile jog here and there. I will work out with a
trainer a few days a week. I’ll go for long walks. I’ll do stuff, got a
rowing machine, got a bike, that kind of stuff. – Move, move your body. – I gotta move, you gotta
move, you gotta just feel like, I think you gotta feel like
things are circulating. But I’m not a big fan of the
boot campy, style work outs where you’re tired. Because you’ve got a life, too. And if you try, if you burn
all your energy by 9 am, early in the morning at the gym, it’s sort of hard to live your day out. I’m actually more of a fan
of working out in a way where you end up having
more energy at the end of the workout than you came in with. Versus like burning it all
off and sweating yourself wet and you’re like exhausted. That doesn’t really work for me, at least. Gotta eat well, exercise and sleep. But sleep is so critical. And also the other thing is perspective. Getting away from the thing that you love. I love to work, I love
the work that we’re doing. And I want to be able to come back to it everyday excited versus exhausted. Or never get away from it, then you never get to see it again. There’s something that’s nice about if you’re always in it
you just can’t see it. You’re too close to it. You need to be able to back away. That’s another thing. I’d say those four things. Perspective is really a key thing. – What about your specific personal habits in the morning or evening? Is there anything you do because sleep, reason I’m asking one layer deeper, is because I was a terrible sleeper for the first 38 years of my life. Terrible, terrible,
like I can hear somebody and wake up. I could hear someone
jogging past my house, outside my house, freakish
level of awareness while sleeping and it was just not great. So I shifted gears and
did a bunch of stuff so that’s why I wanna go one level deeper. And you started doing a
little bit with fitness. But what about sleep? Are there things you do in particular to drive sleep? – Yes, I’ve been learning more about this, really important. I used to work out at the end of the day. I just tend to have a little
more energy during the day but that’s not really that
great if you go to sleep, I have to go to sleep
early now, like by 9, cause my son gets up at like 5:30. – Which means you get up at 5:30. – So I’ve gotta go to sleep earlier. So I can’t work out at
7:30, cause that’s too close to being, so more exercise
earlier in the day is key. I try to go 15 hours between meals. I’m doing the intermittent fasting. Or like time restricted eating. It depends on who you talk to. Some people are like, that’s not a fast, it’s time, whatever. So I eat dinner and I don’t eat breakfast for about 15 hours, 14 to
16 basically, usually 15ish. That’s really been very interesting. We can talk more about that in a minute. And I’ve done, I try
not to look at a screen. There’s light in your
room, but look at a screen for a good 90 minutes before I go to bed although I’m not always good at that. That’s the most challenging. It shows you how addictive and dangerous these devices actually are. I’m consciously trying
not to and I still grab, reach for it. Exercise, I try also not to
go to sleep within three hours of eating dinner. I wanna eat dinner earlier
so I have some time. Some of those things have
really made a big difference. I don’t know if we’re allowed
to talk about products that I use. – So I use something called an Oura ring. Are you familiar with that product? – I just saw their next,
yeah, I have a sizing kit on my desk. – Okay, awesome. I started using that recently. I’ve used other things in the past too. – So it’s a-u-r-a? – O-u-r-a. I’ve used other things in the past which have worked as well also. – Sleep tracker. – Sleep tracking things. But what I like about the ring is that, so when I travel, there’s other devices I’ve used that go under your
bed or under your mattress. But that only works if you’re sleeping in your own bed. And sometimes I’m not. Or sometimes now since we have this baby sometimes we’ll sleep in different beds depending on the sound, so that doesn’t really
work for me right now. So this ring is great, you
throw it on your finger and it tracks your sleep
and it’s quite accurate from what I’ve read. It’s been very enlightening. I can tell now, certain foods
I eat around dinner time, effect my sleep. When I exercise, definitely
effects my sleep. If I have screens it
definitely effects my sleep. So now I have some feedback,
a feedback mechanism in which to make slightly better decisions and see the impact. It’s now always direct,
cause sometime you just have a shitty night, and sometimes
you have a great night even though you did something wrong. But you can see trends
and you start finally pick up on, ah, you
know what, if I do this, it’s definitely effecting my sleep. So I’ve been doing that a lot which has really been helping quite a bit. There’s also a bit of placebo,
or maybe it’s not a placebo I guess it probably wouldn’t be, but there’s a bit of a
placebo when you look at your sleep information in the morning. I go, oh shit, I had good night’s sleep. I actually do feel better. I really do. And maybe it’s because I did
have a good night’s sleep but it’s extra multiplying. – I wonder if Oura takes
that into consideration? – I don’t know. – Speaking of devices,
let’s just shift gears. Oura, that ring is phenomenal. Kevin Rose, a friend of ours, is also very passionate about it. So you track your sleep, working out, all that kind of stuff. We talked before the
camera started rolling about technology. I wanted to go back to that. You mentioned screens, how
does it negatively effect, how do screens negatively
affect you and your world and your health? You’re in the business of creating things that are on screens. – During the day. – During the day. Okay, good, this is why
I want you to qualify it. – So actually there’s
a feature in Basecamp 3 called Work Can Wait. Which allows, each individual employee, anyone who uses Basecamp, to set their own work hours in the product and outside those work hours, Basecamp cannot send you any notifications or any emails or anything. So mine are set from 9 to 5. So at 5:01 Basecamp is
essentially holding my calls to use a parlons basically. And I will not get a single notification from Basecamp until the next morning. That’s like our little
tiny roll in the world is to try to like create some work life separation there. These devices I think
are extremely dangerous because they’re just hitting
your dopamine receptors, or whatever, I don’t know the science, but you have dopamine constantly, picking this thing up,
picking this thing up, picking this thing up, they’re highly addictive. They reward addictive behavior. I found them to be also a gateway for negative information to get into your brain. I think that if you, I found that Twitter specifically, even
friends that you follow, there’s just a lot of bitching on Twitter. And there’s a lot of negativity on Twitter And some of it’s negativity
you might agree with, some of it’s negativity
you may not agree with, but I still just don’t even
want even it if I agree with it, cause I don’t want to
get enraged about stuff. I don’t want this thing
to make me pissed off. And it does a lot of the time. So I’ve been really working on not paying attention to that, and hiding
people, or muting people that are posting anything
that’s not like uplifting or anything you know. I think this is a way,
unfortunately for negativity to get in your brain. And to get you upset about things. I don’t wanna be that way. Also, that’s one of the reasons
I don’t follow the news. I used to follow the news,
I used to be news junkie. And I don’t pay attention
to the news at all anymore. – And you still get it. – You get it, because you can’t not get it if you pick up your phone. But also, nothing, shouldn’t say nothing, almost nothing really matters right now. So I hear about it the next day if I read the paper, it’s funny, I was at a hotel and they’re like, would you like a newspaper? And I was like, yeah I
will actually this time, I’ll take the newspaper. Would you like the USA Today? I don’t know, it doesn’t matter, New York Times, it doesn’t matter. So I get the paper and I’m
reading the paper in the morning. This is best fucking
format for news, ever. Because it’s everything I
can of really want to know or need to know essentially, once a day, that’s enough. It summarizes what happened yesterday. And that’s enough. That’s the right cadence I think for news. Maybe once a day, maybe
even every few days, maybe once a week’s probably enough. Everything is breaking news, 24/7, everything’s a hot story. Like none of this shit is a hot story that matters right now. Unless there’s a natural disaster, like you’re in the path of a hurricane, you wanna know that. A lot of other things can wait. I’m more a fan of things
that can wait than right now. And so anyway I think
that these devices are polluting us in a lot of
ways and I think it’s real unfortunate. I think a time of reckoning is coming. You’re seeing people’s
attitudes are starting to shift and turn and I think people are beginning to realize. – Look at Apple with screen time, monitoring how much
time you’re on each app, what category of app, allowing
you to turn things off after a certain amount of time. You gotta know that they have the data. If the data is saying we’ve gotta give these people control over their own sort of how much impact
our devices have on them. That’s on accident
because they’re typically, products want you to use them more. That is there mechanism in life is to engage you. And if someone like
Apple is already sort of curbing that there’s, they
don’t do that on accident. – We were sort of riffing
on this a little bit earlier of this idea that, I was thinking like, with cigarettes, I
wouldn’t be surprised if social media in general is eventually seen as the next cigarette. That we look back on this and go, wow. This was incredibly unhealthy for like kids, for adults, for everybody. For our brains, for our developments, for our egos, for all these things. – Was does a 100 dopamine hits a day do for someone? – It’s gonna wear your
brain out, it has to. We’re not built for that. Something’s gonna happen
and this is the first generation that’s had
daily hits like that. And it’ll be for decades. Something’s gonna go wrong at some point. You think about Phillip-Morris. They knew cigarettes were bad and they withheld that science and that’s what people
really got pissed off about in the end. It wasn’t that people
made a personal choice to smoke cigarettes, it
was that the companies knew they were bad and didn’t
tell you, basically. And you kind of wonder in some ways if these technology
companies are beginning to heed that call and go, you know, we should be getting in there, we know, like you said, they have the data, we know the stuff is
probably not good for you. Even just for sleep. Sleep affects every system in your body and they have, I forget
what’s it called now, like night shift or whatever, on the Mac, and in the phone. It’s good, by the way I think it’s great that these things exist. But it’s kind of also
like you could almost cynically say that is
a way to guard against the liability. We know this is bad and
we’re giving you tools to prevent it. Like you wouldn’t
imagine a cigarette maker ever making a cigarette
pack that would only dispense three a day. But that’s kind of what
Apple and if Android has this same stuff, probably
does, it’s kind of doing, they’re saying, we’re
giving the tools to do that. – You can over it, there’s
a button on the bottom that’ll let you override it. – You can override it cause it’s freedom, you can do whatever you want. – Because freedom. – But at some point, you
know how they have like haptic feedback on the
screen, maybe it’ll have like electric shock,
extend for 15 minutes, don’t do that, like you’ll
have to pay for that. Anyway I think that you’re
right they have the data, they know, as these are
definitely affecting us. And we’re gonna see what the affects are in a number of years. I think it’s too early
but people are beginning to notice, yeah. And I think the general
pushback against, too, against companies like Facebook
and these other companies where they’re saying like. This is a probably a net
negative, yeah I know it’s cool to get together with
your high school friends or stay in touch with long lost relatives. Like there’s definitely
value in that for sure, but net negative because
of everything else. And I think people are
starting to wake up to that. It’s happening. – Those are a couple of things
that we think are weird, or pisses us off, or frustrating,
let’s flip the script. What are some of things that you love? What are, just again, wild,
feel free to cover any domain, like what are some of the things you love? – I love seeing, there’s this book, I can’t remember what it’s called, let’s see if I can
remember, it’s a book on, there’s two of em I think, on Russian folk inventions and Eastern European ones. Where this person went to
these small Russian towns where people didn’t have
much during Communism specifically but they needed things. They needed a shovel
but they couldn’t afford a shovel, there’s no shovels at the store. And so they would take a
stick and an old coffee can and like make a shovel out of it. I love that those two books
cause there’s this catalog of these super, super clever inventions. And what I’m getting at
is, I love ingenuity. I love when I see people solve a problem in a clever way that’s
the simplest, possible way to solve the problem. Cause there’s, you could
brute force some solutions to things and then it
doesn’t seem as interesting. But when people have very
little and they solve really clever, creative
problems, that’s something whenever I see that, it
always makes me smile. Whatever it is, doesn’t matter what it is, that’s the kind of stuff I really dig. I love things that are just built well to last. So one of my weird hobbies
is I collect vintage watches. This is actually a new
watch, this is not old. But I mostly collect older stuff. Because they work forever. And they’re built to
last forever, essentially and as long as someone
oils it and cleans it once every decade,
essentially, it will last forever, and that’s an
amazing thing to me. That I can put a watch
on that’s 75 years old and it works just fine. And nothing we make today, not nothing, most of things we make today will not last anywhere near that long
because we don’t live in that kind of world anymore. Devices we use are extinct, essentially, in a few years. A lot of the things we
make today are disposable. They’re meant to be disposable. And there’s a ton of waste around that. So I love running into things that go like this is well made, it’s gonna last and it’s worth paying for. It could be furniture, it
could a piece of clothing, it could be a home, it could be anything. I love that kind of stuff. I also love looking at things that, things that I could never do. That’s kind of stuff I love the most. Like, some rugs you look
at are hand knotted. I looked at some of these Turkish rugs and to think that someone
hand knotted that design. And I don’t know how long it took but it took forever. I couldn’t do that. I’m so thoroughly impressed
by that kind of stuff. I love that kind of stuff
that just blows me away. What an amazing pursuit and patience and artistic ability and all those things that kind of combination of things, that always gets me. Simple like, again, being out in nature, and just seeing the inventions of nature. I just love that. It’s funny cause there’s nothing in nature I don’t like. And there’s a lot of things you can say that you don’t like about other things. But it’s hard to go out in nature and go, I don’t like that. – So true. – Everything is just
right, it’s just right. Seeing natural systems work is really fascinating to me. I could go on and on. There’s a lot of things I like. I also like really well written sentences. I just love sentences. – Precision and craft and yeah. – There’s a great book that I liked called On Writing Well, I think
is the title of it, and it’s got a terrible cover, it has like a CD on it, it’s like I don’t understand the cover but it’s, I’m sorry it’s called Revising Prose. By the way, On Writing
Well, is another good book about writing. Revising Prose, and this guy talks about how to write sentences. And he just squeezes
all that fat out of em but doesn’t make em sterile. I think that’s the real art. How do you like really compress a sentence and be concise but be also let it flower. There’s something really beautiful about really well written sentences. So I love like, whenever I read something, I’m like, that’s a good line. Or I hear something and I watch a movie, that’s a great line. I love lines. I don’t know, there’s more things. – These are all beautiful. How about some resources for other people? You’ve listed a couple of books. Is there a couple of things that are just Jason Fried go tos? That was a fine answer or
I hate when people ask me. I’m not saying, superlative,
what’s your favorite, I hate being asked those questions. – I’m on the spot on those. – I’ve got a favorite thing right now. – I think for me it’s, this
is not what I’d recommend specifically but it’s kind of a direction, which is find something
that’s sort of parallel to what you do and get into that. So that’s what I’ve always
found to be enlightening. For example, I’m into
technically graphic design, software design, but I pay more attention to architecture and furniture design and that kind of stuff. Which is close enough to what I do where I can draw some lessons from it. But it’s new. And it’s different. I have to use a different part of my brain to think about why it’s
good and why it’s not. So I think that’s one thing as a general go to. Like what do you kinda do
and it’d be if you’re a cook and you’re really deep into Italian food, get into Spanish food for awhile. It’s still cooking and
learn that kind of thing. – Adjacent areas of knowledge. – Adjacent areas of knowledge, yeah. I think that’s something I would recommend people get into. I would also take more
walks without a device and just look up. Everyone’s looking down,
I feel like we’re gonna have these really strong
necks in the future and we’re not actually
gonna be able to look up. Cause everyone is always looking down. – Big eyes and a hunched over neck. – Yeah, totally, something like that. It’s gonna be some weird thing. – Alien look. – Just walk around, get out in the woods, walk around, look around,
that kind of stuff. Which, it’s not, the cool
thing is, I know in some areas that’s harder to do but it’s accessible at some level for most people and it doesn’t cost anything just to go take a walk,
hopefully into some woods. – It’s amazing how refreshing that can be. – It really is. – I’m gonna try to bring
this back to work now. – See if you can do that. – I do love, but to me
that’s a real core message that the show has been
about for 10 years now, which is, areas of influence outside. That’s why the show was developed in fact because I wanted to
learn from other people who are outside my area of expertise, to bring them and to
be able to be inspired and what not. So are there influences outside, you’re very clear of saying this is how we do it. Are there other places that are at work are inspiring to you,
like do you look at– – Other companies, yeah. – Yeah, other companies,
or other cultures, you’re very careful I
think and that’s probably why you can do a good
job of making such bold statements as like what
I’m saying right here is not for everybody but it worked for us. In line with the questions
about your outside inspirations and now
bringing this back to work, are there other models that you look to for brilliance in work style? – Yeah, I admire any
organization of any kind that works, that’s sustainable. I’ll give you something specific actually, cause that’s very broad
and not very helpful. One of the guys who
inspired David and I a lot early on was this guy
named Ricardo Semler. You should try and get him on your show. He’s great, he’s from Brazil He wrote this book called Maverick. Which was a book about his business, he inherited this
business from his father. It’s a big Brazilian company,
big industrial company, they make oil pumps for oil tankers, big huge, completely
different from our world. – Industry. – Industry, hard industry,
heavy industry stuff. He got this business from his father, cause that’s how it works in Brazil, it’s handed down. He gets this business,
I feel like I remember this book is awhile, it’s
been probably 15, 20 years since I’ve read the book,
or 15 years or something. But I remember he said something about he got this big rule book. And he started looking through the book and he’s like, I don’t
understand any of this, none of this makes sense to me. We’re gonna throw this out. I’ve inherited this business
but I’m gonna do it my own way. I’m gonna go talk to people, like how should we run this thing, and what should we do here, and what are the things we
should do, what’s different? And he came up a vastly different way of running a business, in
a very traditional country, in a very traditional industry. He did things like, we don’t do this but, everyone’s salary is out in the open. Everyone can see whatever they make and they can give themselves raises. You give yourself a raise
because it’s public. So if you’re gonna give yourself a raise and everyone’s gonna know
what you’re giving yourself there’s some self regulation there because you’re not gonna,
and also if you don’t live up to your new salary, you
could lose your job. But it’s about, what do
you think you’re worth? And why don’t you prove it. And I thought was, we haven’t done that, but that’s really interesting. He would let their
employees hire managers. Typically a manager would hire employees but the employees that get
to hire their own manager. Some of the stuff has been
adopted in other places but it’s still very rare
and 15 years ago or so it was very, very rare. The factory floor where
they made the stuff can be rearranged by the
people making the stuff. They can’t paint things
any color they want, they can move machines
around any way they want. It’s not like a foreman’s job to say this is how it has to be. He was very early about
working reasonable work hours. His whole feeling was,
if work can take you away from life at 3:30 in the
afternoon on Sunday for a call, why can’t you go see a movie at 3:30 in the afternoon on a Monday while you’re supposed to be at work. It’s gotta be equal, so
he’s very big into that. – One more time, what’s his name? – His name’s Ricardo Semler and the book is called Maverick. He wrote another book
called, something about 7 day weekend or something, but there’s another book
out with a similar title, I’m not sure. Look up name, Ricardo
Semler, and Maverick. Highly recommend reading that book. The cool thing about him
is he’s taken these ideas and brought into it education in Brazil. So he’s opened schools
around a very different method of education rather
than a very traditional classroom, lecture style,
teacher thing, sitting behind desk, and made
it very participatory. And it’s apparently it’s been, from what I understood,
at least back then, it was doing very well. I don’t know how it’s doing now or what he’s doing. But really fascinating guy. I’ve drawn a lot of inspiration from him. Like, you just don’t have to do things the way everyone else does. And find the thing that works for you. And just cause no one else has done it doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. And just because everyone
else is doing it this way doesn’t mean it’s working either. They’re just doing it this way. Which is why the same thing about, people work, as we talked
about in the beginning, working long or working hard doesn’t mean you’re working well. It just means you’re working hard and working long. It doesn’t have any
correlation with actually the output of what you’re
producing and the quality. Very similar there, he’s wonderful. – Anybody else? – People like, this is such
a cliche, boring answer but like Warren Buffett
and Charlie Munger. I just so admire those guys. I mean it’s hard not to, I suppose. But what I admire about them is their fundamental understanding of what matters and what doesn’t. Their focus on value, their rejection of trends in favor of just what sound and Charlie Munger is a quote machine. He’s so thoughtful and so smart. He’s like 92 and still there. The other thing is like
Berkshire Hathaway, the company, which is a massive company, I believe they have
something like 25 or 30 employees, that’s it,
give or take 5 or 10. But like small company. They companies they run are large but this group that owns the companies is actually quite small. And so I take a lot of
inspiration from that, too. That they can do that with a small crew. And that they’ve chosen to
do it with a small crew. So I love those guys. They’re one of a kind, or
two of a kind, I guess. But it’s also, the end of an era. They’re both 80’s and 90’s now. But I really respect and admire them. I love to read, like
Warren Buffett’s letters to his shareholders,
must read for anybody. – If you’re listening
right now and you haven’t ever read one of those letters you should go search the internet
right now and go read one. – Must read, they’re so good. And they’re not only,
they’re just great prose, it’s clear minded writing. – I could see how you would just love it. – It’s so good, it’s so good. You don’t have to care about business, it has nothing to do with business. – Like money, or anything. – God damn, it’s so good. So I love that. Bezos has been writing really good shareholder letters too. He’s clearly inspired by them. I like reading his stuff as well. – Couple of Bezos things to wrap this up. He talked about being wildly misunderstood for long periods of time. Do you feel like that’s
what’s happening right now, that you’ve got it right with business and the way to work. Because you really write about work. And it’s just, you’re being,
people are misunderstanding, you sell a lot of books,
and you have a lot of fans and customers but for pop culture they’re gonna come around at some point and you’re gonna be on the right side– – I think it’s gonna get
worse before it gets better. I think at some point it’s going to turn. It’s interesting, there is a trend, by the way, this is primarily
an American problem. In Germany they will
primarily work 40 hour weeks and they do amazing work. Scandinavian countries
work, France, I believe, they’re cutting back. – 34, 32 now. – 32 now. And some people in America,
like I used to feel this way, well you know, but look what we’ve built. And look what they’ve done. But they’re happier and they live longer. – They’ve been taking August
off for like 500 years. And now we’re like, I
don’t wanna work so much in August, it’s really
nice to have more time. – Right, exactly. – All of my internet tech friends are trying to figure out how to work less in August. – There ya go. – When I lived in France I
was like putting my feet up. – Totally, and there’s
more to life than work. That’s what they figured out. I think in time more
and more of these ideas will sort of ripen up for other people. But I think it might be awhile. I think it’s gonna get worse for awhile. – Disagree and commit. Another Bezos quote. – That was a Bezos thing, which is, something we practice as well but again didn’t really
have a name for it, which is this idea that, at Basecamp, decisions are not made by
consensus or by voting. People will gather around
and we’ll talk about it. People will have input. But then somebody makes the decision. – Is it like product owner
or whoever’s in charge? – Whoever’s in charge of that thing. It doesn’t matter what rank or role or any of that stuff,
like whoever’s in charge of that thing, depends on the project, but there’s always one
person whose job it is to make a decision and
consider and then it’s everyone else’s job to agree and commit or disagree and commit. And disagree and commit, going like, I don’t agree but I’m in. Cause you gotta get in
line and then do the work. Something else might come down the road or someone else disagrees with you and you’re gonna count on them. But the amount of effort that’s required to get everyone to agree on something is often not well spent. You’re better off, of course, listening. Having a vigorous debate and then going, okay here’s what we’re gonna do. And then going. So that’s the idea behind
disagree and commit. David and I do this with
each other occasionally. We’ll be battling and
it’s like you know what, David you want this one more than I do, so I don’t think it’s the right decision but let’s do it, I’m cool with that. And it’s kind of like two friends going out for lunch, like you got this one
I’ll get the next one. You don’t know how it all evens out but it kind of evens out in the end. It sort of similar to that as well. – I think you and David
are doing a good job. You’re writing about work in
a way that nobody else is, it’s inspirational and meaningful and I just went and tried
to buy a few other books to give as gifts and they were sold out. Help me with that. – To get more copies of this? – Yeah, more copies of it. – Our publisher under printed the book– – They sandbagged you, they didn’t think you gonna be as popular– – It was interesting, I’m
happy to talk about it. It was weird, because
we got a big advance. And so when you get a big advance you expect that they need
to sell a lot of books to make the money back. And that they would expect
it’s gonna be a popular book. And they didn’t print enough. And it wasn’t like we sold, they printed about 14,000 copies. Rework though, which was
done almost 10 years ago, they printed 35,000 copies. And for some reason they
printed 14,000 for this one. Okay fine, whatever. – Somebody disagreed and committed. – Yes, fine, whatever, right. But the thing that was bad about it was we couldn’t get a
reprint for about a month. That’s what, so the momentum was like, we sold out on Amazon in five days, thousands of copies,
and then out of stock, shipping like two to four weeks, that sucked, but they just
printed another 15,000 or something so they’re
back in stock at Amazon and all the booksellers now. You’ll find em on the shelves again now. – Just a little blip. – A little blip, it sucked
because it kind of took the momentum out of it for a little bit. But the book is back in
stock everywhere now. – I love giving gifts. – You can get an audio book, by the way. Which is a way– – I love giving books as
gifts and I’ve been a big giver of Rework for a long time. It Doesn’t Have to be
Crazy Work as a new gift. Thank you so much for writing it. Thank you for being a
pioneer in future work and all the things you’ve called out here and thanks for being a guest on the show. – Aw, man it was really
fun, thanks for having me. – Really appreciate it. For the folks at home
again, here’s one more look at the book, pick up a copy. I’m Chase, this has been Jason and thanks a lot, have a great day. Hopefully see you tomorrow. (upbeat music)

Business Plan : Examples and Best Practices of Business Plan Writing


Hello, my name is Ian Casterton and welcome to StartMeUp videos today we’re joined by doctor Steven Gedeon to discuss the proper techniques to business
plan writing. Thanks for joining us Steve My pleasure Steve you have started over a dozen companies venture
capital firms and nonprofits Can you tell us about your most recent company i haven’t started over a dozen i’ve been the CEO,
turnaround or started over a dozen My most recent company um… probably
would’ve been 3DNA we raised five rounds of financing five or six rounds of financing and it’s the number one download in our product
category for the last year and we grew the company to over a million in revenues and over twenty employees before declaring victory and moving.
Ian: Congratulation on your success.
Steve: Thanks and you have also started a number of venture capital firms
correct ? yes of the largest would’ve been are hundred
billion million dollars US VS program based out of san diego I was also involved with starting a couple of smaller seed venture capital firms as well so you had both perspectives, You have asked for money as an entrepreneur and you have spent someone else’s money as a venture capitalist. Can you tell us about the different perspectives ? It really doees give you different perspectives When it’s your baby and you are passionat about it. You don’t understand why don’t these idiots get it and then suddenly the next week on the other
side of the table going wow why don’t these entrepreneurs get it All I want is a simple answer to this, this and this and the entrepreneurs just don’t get it so yes it has given me a really intresting perspective on the both buy and sell side of the transactions and now you teach business plan writing correct ? that has given me an even bigger perspective. I thinnk Confucius said
something like; to really understand something you know if you hear something you learn
a little bit if you do something you learn more but to learn the best you have to teach somebody else
something so it sounds like a business plan is a useful
tool for just the entrepreneur just to get their ideas on paper ?
Steve: business plans play a variety of roles. Certainly a number of business I have started up, we never had a business plan.I have seen a lot of well written documents saying don’t waste
of time writing a business plan certainly for some businesses you shouldn’t
waste your time just get out there just do it do it,do it,do it and why bother write it down on a piece of paper but business plan certainly play a very
key role for certain reasons so certainly if you’re trying to raise financing and you want to promote yourself as a credible intelligent
entrepreneur or with the well-thought-out business plan you know what the money is going to look
like, how much you need and why then people want to see at least something you should keep it short i would say very few people will read more
than twenty, twenty five pages. That would be it a lot of people won’t go beyond the executive
summary before they make a decision on it so there is a lot of different reasons to write a business
plan so i’m an entrepreneur and I just decided, I want to write a
business plan Steve: Good for you
Ian: Thank you What are some strategies that I can get what is in my head right on the paper ? do I have to think about an outline for everything or should I start right away ? Good Question i think that the writing the business plan itself is not nearly
as important as the process by which you think through what is a successful business that if you leave if you think through and
write through what makes a successful business and figure out all those things then the business
plan will write itself so so when I teach the course for example What I start with is saying just write down week two or week three Just tell me what your idea is clearly and succinctly what is your idea and surprisingly that’s that’s hard for a
lot of people that’s, they talk around it’s they it seems clear in enough in their own mind when they
try to put down on a piece of paper the idea get’s burried under too many words you’ve got to be able to convey what your
idea is in a sentance maybe two if you’re selling to your mom who loves you maybe
three sentances because she will pay attention long enough but if it’s not if you can’t clearly articulated at a paragraph then it’s not clear in your
own mind that’s that’s the first phase of just what
is it and then second phase i usually go through is i say tell me in detail who your customer is and why they care and very often what’ll happen is as people think about who their customer is and why they care then they have to go back and
change what the original idea was and so the idea of being able to really focus on
who that customer is is so important and and and most entrepreners don’t
get this. What they do is to say I’m seeling to women well the problem is you can’t sell to women The thing I like to say to students sometimes is imagine you started a company there’s a telephone start making phone calls you are selling to women what are you going to do just pick up the phone call the first person Hi, are you a woman ? let me sell at you You stand on the street corner in a chicken outfit, hey women buy my thing ?! you have to have in mind a particular woman doing a particular thing what is it about that particular individual
that makes them pay attention to your idea, love your idea
and buy from you and and the more you can’t focus on and
it’s segmentation niche marketing kind of business lingo associate with this the better you can articulate who that target
demographic is their psychographics what they read where they hang out better you can place your message in a place where they’ll see it Steve: Does make sense ?
Ian: It does, and it sounds like you are detailing a lot about
0:06:15.669,0:06:19.039
the exectuive summary and how that is the more important element of a business plan. Steve:We haven’t written the executive summary yet. I’m still working through, think through the right business. You can do this on a piece of paper, hand written and so let me go through a little bit more some of
the kind of a big conceptual blocks that you need to fit all together maybe i’ll back up a little bit the business planning process self most business planning books seem to say you
start beginning and you write through the end but that’s not what you think through business. The way
you think through a businesses is you start you start thinking through a little bit then
you realize you got to go back to beginning and start over again then you think you little bit more go back to the beginnig so you’ve got the slate clean process to go
through before you fine you’ve figured out how to make it all came
together now you can start writing a business plan so the first thing you do is to say you in
general terms safely what’s the business and then say cooled by selling to but in detail not just you know women or you
know people between the ages of twenty five and
thirty five you people of different you got out honor that’s when you’re trying to sell your
product to them and so we figured we hear from you customers and uh… figured out how quickly with the price point
needs to be as an example then obviously need lookit career competitors are uh… then comes kind of a quarter business concept of strategy how it different from your competitors that way that’s important your customer which means you don’t know who the competitors
are getting the customers are and yet a hundred different now the figure that out and put it to go back
to rewrite business is all about at any time we have to go back to rewrite the customers
are again sorry at any time in this process should you be taking breaks to talk to any
potential customers the market will tell you anything you need basket but so many people rate these business plans
that are castles in the sky dreams based on you know it’s a billion dollar market side
is gonna get a fraction of a percent of the billion dollar market may act like that means
anything that’s not what business is the bill businesses are built one customer a time once sale at the time okay uh… just uh… dual curve ball uh… as a venture capitalist country with
them hundreds of business plan meanwhile was the
most important component or what did you first look at tearing me if you should keep
on reading or his electrical reports um i can speak with the story on this matter
everybody agrees on this point person you look at forces the executive summary of the first thing you look at is really uh… but people bet on the jockey before the fed of
course people that honor eighteen with the big plan over
and any plan with the people so they look at the entrance uh… they look at the overall business idea and that damn right to the financials and that seems like
it’s the most challenging part of the business plan ras pickens struggle with the financial
thing all the time shannon adaptive and so many of the business plan but six release
declined step one is estimate the overall size of the
market you know some big crazy large number step
to estimate your percentage of it all i need is one percent step three make a random crazy yes at how to go from zero to that one percents
over specs for your time and that becomes your top-line revenue number but but that’s that’s such fantasy and again it doesn’t honor the reality of hollow on thurs build a business make once
it with time so as a superficial example you would say month one popping a put in my financial protectionism
i’m gonna make five hundred cold calls of those five hundred cold calls a hundred
people above the election speak with of those hundred people tend to go into be interested alarming face-to-face with five of them of those five i’m not gonna close any sales month too i’m going to make three hundred phone calls you know meet with
that’s number of people and then i’m calling to make a sale and also part of those revenue drivers are why do you make a sale who wanted to make that sale to there’s a
big company little company like what part of my target demographic how much is that still than before so no as a b c when i look at that time thousands
eilers instruction arbitrate ten thousand dollars i can see it hard to come up with
that ten thousand all i see you can make a bunch of phone calls
you to meet with people you can’t see why the san francisco open a
cd expense that we are very good on and uh… all i see you not and you get a filmmaker silverstone i’ve been there you’re gonna feel glad to
be you know that you want to you can see all the steps of the author is
going through to get to that sale now that number has some credibility it’s not you know you throw darted a dart board and
month one of my have ten thousand dollars mean or even worse you say something stupid like
that this is conservative everybody knows that the numbers that you’re
putting your business plan are long before you put and you’ll be believes your numbers and chances are you getting your numbers right
are astronomically zero but the question is once you’ve got my millions of dollars your six months it and now the numbers are wrong we all know
to be wrong the question is has the projections giving
you a died management action so that’s the real purpose of the financial
numbers is does it give you a guide to action but let’s say for example that you say uh…
okay uh… on my spreadsheet first able to do them as
they are going to give away ten thousand brochures of those ten thousand brochures arm we’re gonna get a two percent response rate people go to our website uh… as result we have a certain number of
hits on our website fall from the number of people come to our
website we’re gonna conversant percentage of those two cells uh… at a certain dollar value and now what you know finally revenue number it was is you know all those numbers add up basically what comes and goes your numbers are wrong question is why what did you feel depicted
you give away the right number brochures yes but we didn’t get two percent sponsoring need we need to change the brochure didn’t change the color of marketing message
or who we give them out too maybe we need to change that or else they be did percent response rate
but didn’t get the drive through the web traffic what can we do to fix that mike you know maybe once people come to the website
they’re not buying if you do something different your website
if the price point is wrong but usual guide to management action as opposed to what we said would be ten thousand we didn’t
make ten thousand which we do different uh… i don’t know tried harder let’s try harder it up but that doesn’t work for you but have you how do you tell your business
plan for these different audiences you always have to evaluate your audiences
what they want to see and what the call to action is from them so the call to action for a brochure could be anything from by now call this number on go to our website began tell people what
the called actions so any chance you specific question perfect or after the cds is is a
different plan and you would write to your own poorly which is a different plan that you might right
for your bank which is a different plan than you might right for your phone clarity of
thought are for one of my going to do to uh… make money off of this venture as
opposed to is great ideas motivational pocket lots of pictures stuff like that are you getting a lot of questions that archer’s out out there in the world have i’m sure uh… thank you very much if you have any
other resources needed for now line for business plan warning or sources please visit family oppression
dot com defense again for joining us trip

How To DEAL With DIFFICULT People – #BelieveLife


– Good morning Believe Nation, it’s Evan. My one word is believe and I believe that you have a special ability
to create something amazing that can change the planet. So to help you on your
journey today we’re going to talk about how to deal
with difficult people. (gentle music) – Your ability to deal
with people is going to have more of an influence on
your success and happiness than any other skill you can develop. Now it’s easy to deal
with pleasant positive cheerful people. It’s when you have to
deal with difficult people that you really demonstrate
the quality of your personality and your
ability to function well in a competitive society. So how do you deal with difficult people? People who have problems,
people who are angry, people who are frustrated,
people who attack you. Worst of all, people who
do not mean you any good and want to take advantage of you. (gentle music) – Keep your perspective as
being a champion of humanity. What do I mean by that? You know what happens often times when we’re frustrated with other people is we’ve lost our connection with humanity in some way or another. We’re in a big hurry and we’ve forgotten
that people have stories and realities that we do not know about. You don’t know what is
going on in somebody’s day when they’ve just pissed you off, right? They just did something and
you think, oh well you know they’re like this, or,
they were going like this. You don’t know. Maybe you had a co-worker
who was supposed to deliver something in the
morning, and they didn’t deliver. Now you’re fired up and
you’re frustrated about them. But, you didn’t know that
oh their child woke up in the morning, and was
throwing up a whole morning and and they haven’t slept
in the last nine hours. Sometimes you don’t know that somebody had a death in the family. Sometimes you don’t know
somebody on their way to work got some terrible news. Sometimes you don’t
know the real challenge and frustrations people are
dealing with at their home, at their in their regular
life with their family. You don’t know. You don’t know if this person
who you’re so angry with you’d feel like, gah, I just wish I could punch them in the face I’m so mad at them. You don’t know that they’re a victim of a domestic violence at a home. See, we make all these
assumptions about people, well they’re just so
stupid or there’s something wrong with them. And we never know their real story. And soon as you lose
your patience with people you lose your connection with humanity. You lose that understanding
that you know what, stuff happens in people’s lives. And maybe right now
they’ve had a lot of chaos and your life is going along smooth. Or maybe you’re having a lot
of chaos and all of a sudden your chaos and your smoothness
or whatever, it interacts. And if you feel like it’s going to explode in this great amount of frustration. And you forget well oh gosh, people have things going on. As busy, as stress-filled as you are other people have that too. As freaked out, as a heavy plate of
responsibilities as you have other people have that too. And if you don’t believe
that, then you’ve gotten to a place where you’ve
allowed your intellect to grow your ego to such a level that you can’t connect
with humanity anymore. And I know that sounds flippant to say, but what happens for so many people is, they do there. Especially folks who are quote
unquote intellectuals right people who feel like they’re very evolved, enlightened, supremely conscious. What ends up happening
for them is sometimes they have lost that real
connection with humanity because they think they’re so
special versus other people. And here’s the ultimately
the challenge with folks who do have an ego like that or who do feel so much
more supremely special than other people that other people they just don’t understand
how much the frustrating me. They become very caged in their life. It’s like watching an animal that is caged that gets resigned because it’s been wild and free at some point and now it’s resigned in the back of the cage, curled up angry and
frustrated pointing at people. They don’t understand me,
they don’t understand me, they don’t understand me. And the folks who often say, other people don’t understand me, are the same people who rarely ever raise their hand and ask for help. They’re the folks who
easily get frustrated, annoyed or resign from other people. And now, when they need help, or when they want to progress their life because they’ve drawn away from people who they believe to be stupid, because they’ve drawn away from others who they believe other
people can’t understand them. Because they believe other people can’t understand them, they don’t ask for help. They don’t collaborate,
they don’t socialize. They don’t create the very
influenced relationships and networks that is necessary for them to grow to the next level in their life and in their business. So you have to think
about that for a moment. Have you got so disconnected
from other people that you’re often frustrated with them because you forgot that you
don’t understand their story. You don’t know what they’re going through. Just like you’re frustrated
and you’re saying, well they don’t know
what I’m going through. Everybody else feels that way. Once you understand
that really the reality of humanity is it’s a bunch
of human beings walking around with a sign at the top
of their head that says, please understand me, please be patient with me, please help, then you stop getting so
frustrated with people. And you realize that we’re all struggling, we’re all doing the best that we can. We all have big dreams
and goals and desires and being connected to
humanity is learning to be patient with people to get. – Number two, stay calm. How we feel internally is how we carry ourselves externally. Once you can smile when you’re dealing with people that you don’t resonate
with, difficult people. Once you can keep calm that
inner balance is essential. Keep your head up. A lot of people walk
around their whole life with their head down to the ground. Keep your back straight. Stand your ground. You don’t have to become
confrontational with anybody but we all must tap into our inner power because the power is within. We have to really be
connected to who we are. Breathe easy. Once you can be calm and not become so reactive, a lot of people that annoy us they want us to fall into their trap. Difficult people, whether it’s at work wherever it may be, they want you to battle with them. Whatever you fight you give energy to. Therefore resistance makes stronger. Once you can become silent, say what you want to say but
become silent within yourself you develop inner peace and balance. And therefore that difficult
person is no longer difficult. There are no difficult people is how we interpret what is difficult. It is our interpretation of
what it means to be difficult. It’s different for every
single person on the planet. – Take a deep breath, and be patient. Calm down, go slow. Don’t let other people’s
negativity or anger or frustration affect you. Step back in your own mind
mentally and just smile. You know there’s an old
saying, if you don’t if you can’t say something
nice, don’t talk at all is my advice. Sometimes the very best thing you can do in dealing with difficult people
is just to be dead silent. Don’t feed the fire by
arguing or getting involved. When you’re dealing
with a difficult person just stop the clock like a timeout, just smile and don’t say anything. And then when you do say something remember one of the great
communication tools is this, is the person who asks
questions has control. The way that you can take control of any negative situation is not trying to win but simply by asking questions. Say, you know what why do you say that? Or, why do you feel that way? Or, that’s an interesting point of view. How did you come to that point of view? Or, how would we know
that what you say is true? I mean, is there any proof or validity? Instead of attacking simply ask questions. And it’s sort of like the
matador backs away from the bull is you keep backing away from the bull you cape the difficult person
by simply asking questions and being genuinely curious about what he or she
is thinking and feeling and why they are behaving
the way they are. Sometimes you may find that
they have a good reason. Sometimes you may find that
they misunderstand something. Maybe you will find that they have a difficult problem in their lives. But in any case, be calm, be patient, be controlled and ask questions and it will make you the
master of the situation. – Some people have got
a negative blood group. It’s just the way some people are. They wear negativity like
an old comfortable coat, it just seems to fit them really well. So they’re the kind of people that even if they won the lottery would say, she’ll smile. look it
wasn’t the rollover week. In their mantra for life, never
forget every silver lining has a black cloud. But I want us to be
careful of these people because sometimes I think
we need to challenge them because sometimes I think they’re unaware of how their negativity and their misery can impact those around them. Maybe you could even use
humor to defuse the situation. How long have you been a
motivational speaker then? But I think we need to
be careful that although people might be miserable by nature, let’s just be prepared to challenge that and sometimes use humor
to defuse the situation. – My philosophy on this is really simple is the philosophy that life is too short for dealing with difficult
and toxic people. I mean like why, why make life
more difficult for yourself, life is already pretty challenging. You’re already working
really hard on your own life, on your own self, why are
you bringing yourself down with these, with these toxic people? There’s like, there’s
no reason for it, right? So my strategy here and
my solution ultimately is to get rid of these
people out of my life. I want to live a life where the people that are in my life are supporting me, encouraging me, bringing in positivity. They’re building they’re building something with me, rather
than going against me. And so that’s kind of
the the ultimate solution I really want to get to like
the root cause of it here. Because a lot of people what they do what I see them doing is they’re so stuck like in the social matrix. They’re so worried about
being relied relying upon various social relationships, that they’re not willing to get rid of these toxic people out of their lives. And what this does is
it just it creates this like spiral of negativity that goes down and down and down and
it brings you with it. And there’s no need to
live a life like that. In fact, what I’m going to argue is that you can’t really self-actualize, you can’t really create a
powerful and happy fulfilling life if you’re surrounding yourself
with these types of folks. Jim Rohn, I love Jim Rohn, has a lot of great wisdom. One of the most wise
things that he said was that you are the average
of the top five associates that you hang out with. What this means is that if
you take and make a list of all the people in your life
and you write a number down for how many hours per week you’re spending with with
each one of those people. And you then rank everybody according to the number of hours
you spend with them, the top five people that you
spend the most time with, these are the people that have
the most influence on you. It’s a very simple theory, basically whoever you hang out with is who you are going to
absorb into yourself. And you kind of become
the average of all that. Well if this principle is true then who do you want to
surround yourself with? Positive empowering people? Or, negative disempowering people? If you do this exercise,
you actually write this out and you actually tally up the numbers you might be shocked to discover that you hang out with some
people a lot more than others. You might also be shocked to discover that some of those people
that you hang out with and spend five or ten or
even 20 hours a week with that those are super negative super pessimistic super miserable and depressive anger prone type of people. And maybe that’s why you’re
not getting the success you want in your life is because you’re around these type
of people all the time. – Thank you guys so much for watching. I’d love to know what did
you think of this video, what was the rule that most applies to you that you’re going to immediately implement somehow into your life or your business? Please let me know, I’d
love to hear from you, leave it down in the comments below. I also want to give a quick
shout out to Marcus Campbell. Marcus, thank you so much for picking up a copy of my book Your One Word and doing the review on it. I really appreciate the support and I’m so glad that you enjoyed the read. – Today we have a special
book review for you and it’s about Your One
Word by Evan Carmichael. – So thank you guys again for watching, I hope you have an amazing day. I believe in you and hope you continue to believe in yourself and whatever your one word is. Much love, I’ll see you soon. – When you think about
that person in your life and usually people have
someone they’re like, oh I know the difficult person. – Right. – The first step is to identify which type do they fall into. There’s four main types
of difficult people. And by the way, on our worst day, we all fall into one of these types. – Oh that’s right.
– Okay. So one might sound familiar. So the first one is downers, so negative Nancies, Debbie downers. They complain, they come
in the room and it’s like the energy just drops out of there. – Absolutely.
– They complain a lot that kind of bucket.
– Right. – The second bucket is better thans. So these are show-offs, people who name-drop. I always hit a one-up. So.
– Oh yeah. – You know like. – You have a story you went
to Italy and blah-de-blah. And then someone said, oh yeah. – I went to Italy longer. – Right.
– It was even better. – Right.
– So they always like if you have something good
they have something better. If you have something big,
they have something bigger. – Right.
– One up. – Got it.
– And they name drop things, they just they, when
people feel low confidence this is what they do to
make themselves feel better They feel like they
have to be better than. – Right.
– Okay so the third type are passes. So this happens typically when
people are so low confident that they don’t have a voice. So they don’t make decisions. Right, you ask them, “So
what do you want to do?” “Whatever you want.”
– Right. – They can be a little
difficult a little difficult in conversation. You ask them a question
they have a one-word answer. – Right. – They don’t ask you anything back. They’re very passive. And it’s usually because they’re afraid, they don’t think they’re worth it. – Right.
– The fourth difficult type of person is downers, passives, uppers oh and tanks. Yeah. So tanks are the ones where they can get really angry, kind of explosive. They can be called bossy, which I think is a banned word these days. – Right. – We’re not supposed to use bossy, we’re not supposed to use bossy. So they kind of come
in and they want to be a control freak. They’re like I want to take
control of the situation. – Yeah.
– So they can be very emotional. That’s the cue you want to watch out for. So once you identify the type of person that you’re dealing with the second step and this is the biggest mistake, is, you can’t try to fix them. – Right.
– Right. – You have to adjust to them, don’t you? – Right, you adjust to them. The problem is is if you try
to tell a tank to calm down they usually freak out even more. – Right. – If you tell a passive to speak up that makes them even more shy. – Right. – So if you try to fix them that usually makes them
even more uncomfortable. – Sure. – So the better thing to do is step three and that’s to try to understand them. So if you can shift the mindset from, I don’t want to fix them or change them, I want to understand
where they’re coming from, I call this finding their value language. So everyone has a value language. This is something that they
in it drives their actions. It’s what they hold most dear. So it could be knowledge, they want to know everything. Or it could be money that they want huge amounts of financial success. – Do they all have the
same kind of language? I mean does the tank always have the same kind of language? – So typically like better
thans are know-it-alls. – Okay. – Typically that goes
long, but not always. Typically passives usually they want to be in control of their relationships. – Okay. – So like to know the people in the room. So figure out, and you can do this by asking really open-ended questions, to figure out what is driving them. That will usually calm them down. – Well give me an example of a question I would ask a tank, say. – Sure, so let’s say that you have a tank and you can see that they’re
kind of in control mode when they’re walking around, they’re trying to control everything. You can say, “So tell me “what’s been going on for you?” Or instead of asking like,
“How are you doing?”, or, “How’s work?”, you can say, “So are there any issues
that are bothering you?”, or, “What personal passion
projects are you working on?” – Okay.
– Those kind of deeper questions can usually get them out of that overbearing mode and into discussion with you. And that leads you
perfectly into the fourth. So you’ve identified the type. You’ve said you’re not going to fix them. You are trying to understand them, the last one is to make sure
they’re not toxic to you. – Oh good point. – Right so this is all about you now. So making sure you have
boundaries set on time sets. – Because a downer can
really bring you down. – It just sucks the energy out of it. So you go, okay, you know what? I can’t bring that
downer friend to a party or, if I have a party, I can only talk to them in limited doses. – Right.
– Or they are safe topics. So for tanks, you might
have someone who when they get around a certain topic they get really upset. You know that is a no-go topic for them. – So don’t talk to a tank about politics. – Right exactly. Or if it’s family members. So I had people that they’re difficult but you have to spend time around them that you’re only spending time
with them on their best days. So you know that you know
what they’re not good in social situations.
– Right. – They’re much better one-on-one. – Right. – We’re better off going to
a meal or going to coffee. So setting up, limits
either on time or topics, so they don’t become toxic to you and that makes it a lot more manageable. – Do you also have to watch
not getting caught up in their, I mean getting caught up in their drama? – Yeah so what’s interesting
is there’s something that called it’s called chameleonization. Right, so we become like
the person we’re with. – Right. – And so with difficult
people you have to be so careful that when you’re
with that Debbie downer you don’t also get into that
critical gossipy complaining. – And it’s easy to do. – Oh it’s so because we
want to be congenial. – Right.
– And so we’re like oh if we’re angry like them like a tank. Or if we’re really quiet and a passive. But actually that makes
them feel even worse because you’re both getting
into this really bad area. If you can just go into understanding mode they actually will come out of their shell and they go into their best self. – And the passive the same way. If you can do that with them? – Passive the same way
because most people try to fix passes like, one of my good friends, she’s just very very shy. And people always tell her, “Speak up.” – Oh yeah.
– And that makes her even more shy. So if you ask really specific directed questions about what you know what kind of personal passion
project she’s working, get her talking about
things she’s excited about. – Yeah.
– Then she’s like (exhales) and she can relax
and she becomes more active.